On this episode, I was recently a guest on the Keyser podcast, and they have a podcast called Healthy to 100. And I was a guest on there for two episodes, and I thought it’d be great to be able to just publish this on our own podcast, because I think a lot of this information you’ll really enjoy. It’s pretty much going back to basics with freestyle, with swimming, and we look at what matters, what’s worth knowing, what’s worth doing when it comes to freestyle. So I hope you enjoy this episode. Welcome to the Effortless Swimming Podcast, the show that helps swimmers and triathletes love the water, become a better swimmer, and live a better life. Here’s your host, Brenton Ford. Welcome back, everybody, to Healthy to 100 for another episode. We’re joined again by swimming coach Brenton Ford. We’ve recorded these two podcasts directly after each other. We just had to have a five minute gap so I could book into one of Brenton’s swimming clinics

because I’ve realized my technique’s terrible. And the only way that I’m ever going to beat all of my mates is by getting better techniques. So I look forward to a video analysis, Brenton. Can’t wait. Well, that’s probably one of the main motivations of people who come and see me, is they want to beat their mates or its parents who their kids are starting to get faster than them and they want to try and delay that process a little bit longer. So I understand the motivation. Another motivation, I bet, and this is a motivation for so many people who come to Keyser, is whatever activity they’re doing, they want to be doing it for the next 20 years or 30 years. And it doesn’t matter if they’re 40 or 50 or 60. So what I want to chat about in the next half hour is what are the things that definitely can facilitate performance today? Absolutely, important. But also that can facilitate people participating in this sport that you love and I love

for the next 20 plus years. So I’ve got a list of things that I want to take through. First thing I want to ask you about is equipment, which is probably a kind of a relatively small list for swimming compared to when I’m chatting to a golf pro, but my wetsuits compared to one paces, budgie smugglers for men and one paces for women,

goggles, cap, stuff like that. What’s important for swimming is when it comes to equipment? Yeah, so everyone’s going to need goggles and a couple of tips with goggles. It’s certainly personal preference and it’s worth just trying a couple on in whichever shop you do go to. But if you are swimming outdoors, you’re probably going to want some tinted goggles to make sure that you’re not getting the sun directly in your eyes or if you are, then the tinted goggles will just allow you to be able to see. So tinted goggles is one, if you are going open water, you probably want slightly bigger lenses than some of the ones that are designed for the pool. So there’s just some main ones there that can help people get started. Swimming cap, that’s optional. If you do have long hair, you’re probably going to want to get one because if your hair’s going all over the place, it’s a bit more drag and it can be a little bit of a nuisance.

But it’s certainly not required, but it can just help keep your hair in place. I think it’s also relevant like goggles and caps, although it sounds silly, comfort is a big reason that people continue doing the sport. And I am a bit of a wimp. And so when it gets anywhere near winter in Bondi, I throw the swimming cap on straight away because it just stops me getting that little bit of a head freeze and I can continue doing the open water swim and I really enjoy it. Whereas if I forget the cap on my ears of Carl and I’m like a bit of an ice cream headache and I just, it’s not as enjoyable. So good goggles that don’t leak, big lenses if you’re in the open water cap, if it’s a little bit cold, I think that seems to make a bit of difference people’s comfort. Yeah, totally. And I’m the same. If I am swimming in the open water, I’ll sometimes double cap it. I’ll put two caps on and I’m down here in Victoria, so it’s a little bit cooler.

But yeah, that sort of comfort certainly helps. And another comfort factor there is earplugs. If you don’t, if you have water that gets stuck in your ears and it’s annoying, just getting some earplugs, there’s a lot of different ones out there. I like the, I use Zogs, that’s, I don’t know, like just Zogs earplugs, I think they only make one kind, but I’ve found them to be pretty good. And you can also get custom ones and stuff if you are swimming on a more regular basis. But even that alone can stop people getting in the water. And I sit with my young kid, he’s like, he will not put his hand under the water because he gets water in his ears. So we don’t change too much as adults either sometimes. But earplugs are a one. And then with wet suit or bathers and that sort of thing, if you are going in the open water, most places you’ll be, it will get cold over winter. And just having a wet suit will make it so much more enjoyable

to be in there for people. And what I normally say in terms of what wet suits you should get, for most brands, I would normally steer clear of like the base level one and just maybe go like one model up or two models up. It might cost you another $100 or $200 but usually there’s a little bit more slightly thinner material through the shoulders. And that can make it a lot easier to swim. So with a lot of brands, those base models, they’re fine and they can be all right but it is a little bit harder to move and you’ll probably fatigue a bit sooner through the shoulders. So that’s normally my advice for people when they are getting one, is you want that comfort through the shoulders. It’s really good advice. We did one of these podcasts on surfing and Richie Wallace who looks after the RipKel Pro Richie talked about the importance of investing a bit of money in a good wet suit surfing and it’s not only temperature

but what Brenton was referring to there is the quality of the neoprene or the amount of flexibility in neoprene will dictate how much resistance you’ve got to moving your shoulder. So if you put on a surfing wetsuit circa 1980 there wasn’t a heap of flexibility in there and you felt like you’re working against resistance bands. It might be a good workout for you the whole time but won’t be as much fun. Whereas I roll around in a two times you wet suit, not a nice plug for Luke O’Shea at two times you but the neoprene in those now and the elasticity in them is amazing, Rock. They just don’t restrict your shoulder movement at all. Yeah, and the technology and the quality certainly come a long way and if it’s something that you love to do and I sort of equate this with like swimming for me, swimming and surfing they’re probably my two biggest passions and for something that you really enjoy I think just spend the money.

Like I bought a new surfing wetsuit six months ago because it’s getting pretty cold in winter. Got the top of the line Rip Curl one and I’m just so glad I did. I’m like, it’s another 200 bucks on what I might have got but it’s probably gonna last longer. It’s gonna be much more comfortable and I’m gonna enjoy it. So I think spending money on things that you enjoy it’s worth doing. So yeah, if that’s swimming, get yourself a good wetsuit. Yeah, I think it’s a good point. Something that I’ve spoken to a few patients about one of my patients is a swim teacher up here has run a swim school in Terry Hills for many years and Anne’s a big advocate of the shorts. So it’s not that cold up here in Sydney but getting yourself a pair of particularly for blokes who tend to drag their feet a little bit and kind of acts like anchors in the water. Can you explain everyone, or I’m wondering your thoughts on it and if you could explain to people

why that might be beneficial? Yeah, so the buoyancy shorts that you’re talking about or float pants as people will call them, they’re these swim shorts that’ll just help pop your hips and your legs up. And it’s very similar to having a wetsuit on but it’s much easier to put on and you can wear it at the pool without overheating. It makes a huge difference to your body position. And I think the coach that I was when I first started as a traditional swim coach would have said, it’s cheating, take those off. But the thing, and what I’ve come to learn is that if you are an adult and you’re enjoying your swimming and the float pants or the buoyancy shorts make you enjoy your swimming a whole lot more and it gets you to the pool and gets you actually doing the workout rather than going, I don’t really enjoy my swimming maybe I won’t go. Wear the shorts, it can be so much more enjoyable for people because it just takes care of such a big factor

which is that body position and that balance there. And yeah, I’ve got nothing against it. And okay, yeah, maybe it’s cheating compared to not having them, but who cares? I’ve got a lot of the guys that I swim with in the squad will wear them and yeah, go for it, yeah. It’s just like, we’re wearing floaties for a kid that can’t swim, it’s like, at least they’re in there and they can do it rather than sitting on the sidelines. It’s, yeah, just do it. I was gonna share the story. I rehabbed a patient after a shoulder injury and he loved swimming, had an injury shoulder. Swimming had done another way. Rehabbed his shoulder and he actually wasn’t gonna get back into swimming. He was really worried about it and he was a bit like, wow, made my swimming career is over. And his son recommended that he get a pair of the shorts and lo and behold, that was just the kick that he needed. He went back, his body position was good.

He had lost a lot of fitness because he after shoulder surgery been off for six months but he got back into it and that was the catalyst. I honestly think that was probably the difference between him going back to swimming and doing it three times a week down at Balmoral and maybe never going back. So I’m all about participation and people doing it for as long as they possibly can and that guys swimming career is continuing. So I’m big fan of the shorts. Yeah, it’s such a good story and it’s not an uncommon one I think with a lot of people. It just makes their swimming so much more enjoyable and you’ll certainly get coaches who’ll say like, what are you wearing those for? They’re probably a more old school sort of coaches and but yeah, it’s like, who cares? You know, who cares what someone else is doing? If they enjoy it more and it keeps them going absolutely use them. Yeah, Brendan. So we’ve covered on equipment.

Very interesting training. So you mentioned before that when you were swimming at your most elite level, you’re doing eight or nine sessions a week in the pool. You then said that you’re doing about three or four now. The people that you work with or kind of the average every day swim up what’s your thoughts on how often they should try? Yeah, whatever they can do is good but my usual rule of thumb for most people is two, you can typically maintain what you’ve got and three is a good number to be able to improve what you’re doing. Obviously everyone’s different but that’s what I’d sort of go with as a rule for most people, especially those that would come to our clinics. It would be, yeah, you can definitely get better with two but you’ll notice a difference with three. So I think three is kind of the minimum to really see improvement. Four is great as well but yeah, three is what I’d try to aim for for most people

because with swimming it’s just that feel for the water that you lose quite quickly and you can develop that feel for the water a lot better with that consistency of three. And how long are those sessions where we, there would need to be a minimum of 20 minutes. I would have thought in the pool to even start to make a difference but as a guideline about how long are you recommending? Yeah, I’d be thinking in the pool like a minimum of probably 45 minutes is what you’d wanna aim for is a minimum. If you’re going in the open water you’re gonna be swimming that whole time usually you might have a stop here at a boy or at a post but you’re swimming for a longer period of time there with probably less rest if you’re going than if you’re going to the pool. So you’d probably wanna go a minimum of 30 minutes if you’re in the ocean but I’d usually say about 45 minutes to an hour is quite a good timeframe and the squad are pretty good consumers

they’re all adults we’d normally go an hour, 15 to an hour and a half but yeah, I think 45 to 60 is kind of a good one to aim for. And so we’re doing three sessions a week.

I’m a runner as well and I would normally look at my running like being one long running session, one running session that’s a bit shorter and then one that’s an interval session. How does that apply to swimming? Yeah, pretty similar approach is what I’d normally give people. So if you did have three sessions a week I’d normally be looking to do one as a longer swim maybe slightly longer intervals like some 400s or 300s with a little bit less rest but that would be your more aerobic based session give you that just that base fitness. The second one would usually be a bit of a threshold session where we’re looking to do some intervals that are closer to like your 1.5K sort of race pace. So up around that sort of pace you might, you’re gonna vary it a bit. Something that I think people probably don’t do enough of at least who haven’t learned to swim as a kid is most people do all their session at the same speed.

And so what we wanna ideally do is just mix up the pace a bit and get them being able to change gears when they’re swimming. Some simple things like that would be you might do four 100s and you might just get a little bit quicker each one. So we’d call it like 70% on the first one then 75, 80 and 85% just perceived effort for those four 100s and just doing different sets like that where they’re actually changing their speed. And if you haven’t done that before you’ll probably find it really hard to actually have that gradual improvement over time. You might go the first one, okay the next one a little bit quicker and the last two will be slower because you’ve just burned all your candles. So yeah, take some practice but that’s something that’s really important. So that’s our threshold one. And then the other one we’d normally do is like a speed session with some shorter sprints of 25s and 50s at a higher effort.

And that’s where we can usually mix in a bit more technique work as well with that session. It’s so interesting to hear you say that because I think, you know talking about what principles we can take from elite sport and bring it down to the everyday swimmer or the everyday athletes. So many sports people who are participating in it as weekend warriors they just do it the same each time. You know, I go for a 5k run at the same speed three times a week or you know, I go for a bike ride and I just go at the same perceived effort. And it’s really important for people to understand that really your body will only ever respond to stress. So it needs to be stressed a little bit and then it’s going to respond. There are different ways that you can do it. You can do it through how long you go or how frequent you’re training or your intensity. But as a running principle, we use an 80-20 principle where about 80% of your running

should be relatively low intensity and 20% should be at a higher intensity. Does that kind of apply to swimming as well, Brenton? Yeah, you’d have it fairly similar. You probably have a slightly more at a higher intensity. I think partly because running is a little bit more stress on the body with the impact of it but pretty similar sort of principle. And you’ll get that with at an elite level as well.

They’ll have anywhere between like two to four like an elite level somewhat, two to four key sessions during the week and they might be doing 10 sessions overall. And yeah, those two to four where they’re gonna be working pretty hard and the rest would be lower intensity and lower effort. That’s such good numbers. So two to four key sessions or intensity sessions a week out of 10. So you just do the numbers for everyone listening, 20 to 40% of your sessions are done at a higher intensity and the other ones at less. And also the difference in speed between those higher intensity and lower intensity sessions. It’s relatively significant, isn’t that Brenton? It’s measurable. Yeah, and it’s interesting if you watch an elite level squad train they’re so tuned into what their pace is.

The interesting thing is like when they’re doing your harder efforts and let’s say you’re going like 80, 85% and 90% with that perceived effort. Some people think that between those like 80, 85 and 90 that it would be like for them, let’s say like 10 seconds faster per 100 from going from 80% to 85 to 90%. Things should be these massive differences with that part of it. But the thing is it’s like it’s much more minimal than that. So like what I’m getting at is that people think that when they’re like increasing the effort a little bit that they’ll have these radical speed changes but it’s like it might only be one or two seconds when you go from those sorts of numbers. But that said with your like if you’re going at just aerobic, let’s say you’re going one or two minutes for example at your aerobic pace then your anaerobic pace or when you’re going faster it’s not going to be one minute 30 for that 100. It’s probably going to be, I don’t know

like 145 to 150 somewhere around there maybe. So yeah, it’s like it’s certainly faster but we’re not looking for this like huge differences. You just up the intensity a little bit. Yeah, so do you use perceived exertion? I heard you say that before. Do you use that or do you use time? It just depends with who you’re working with. Like the squad that I swim with, I set the programs. Our Friday session, we’re going off like your PB plus three seconds or PB plus four seconds sort of thing. So we’re working from us with a set time but when we’re doing other sessions it’s more just off perceived effort when we’re doing like a threshold session. So it depends on the person and I quite like perceived effort because it kind of helps you tune into what you think you’re sort of doing and you can hopefully see that improvement but I think in swimming there’s something called critical swim speed CSS which is like a way to test roughly

what your 1500 meter sort of pace would be and you can look it up online. It’s like a 400 and a 200 time trial and that can give you your CSS pace and that’s a good number to sort of work from when you’re doing some sets. So you can work off something like that but because I don’t sort of run a squad anymore I just sort of swim with them. I’m not coaching squad. I just do our clinics and stuff. I just got off perceived effort most of the time with them. Yeah, it’s such a valuable tool. I think is underutilized by a lot of people. So what do you think some of the most common training mistakes are for swimmers? We covered the first one which was just not varying the pace enough and just having everything at one speed. Another one would be not breaking up your sessions

into intervals. So a lot of people when they start swimming it’s like they’re going out for the 5K run. There’s no difference in it. They’ll go and do 20 laps, one kilometer with no breaks and it’s just all done in one chunk and nothing wrong with that but you probably won’t improve much by just doing that. So you’ll see all good swimmers will have their sessions broken up into different intervals of hundreds and 200s and there’s resting between them. And people look at that and go but then I’d be stopping and I wouldn’t be getting as fit. But the thing about that is, well, okay, you probably can’t push as hard when you don’t get those arrests. And the thing with swimming is your technique will break down quite a bit as you’re going through that one kilometer continuous. So you’re much better off taking 10 seconds, 15 seconds or so after 100 or 200, stopping or resetting and going again because you’ll be able to maintain better technique.

And if you train better technique then you’re going to be able to hold a faster time as you swim because if your form breaks down your speed will slow down as well. So it’s a bit of a barrier that people have to actually breaking out their session with some rest. It’s a funny one. Like I come from a swimming background and so of course it’s what you do. You take some rest in between. But yeah, when people are new to it, they just, yeah, it goes against what they think they should be doing. Because they think, well, I’m not gonna get as fit because I have to stop there. You have such a big focus on technique. Don’t you, Brent? Like just listening to you talk there about the degradation of technique as you get a little bit tired. Well, I can’t think of any runner who would describe their running sessions like that but your focus is like constant repetition of the best technique possible. Something all noses on it.

Yeah, and it’s especially with swimming. If you watch the Olympics, like you can see that technique break down in the last, even like the last 15 meters of 100 freestyle as those swimmers that can hold their form for the last 15, that will typically the fastest. Yeah, you’ll see it like there’s… Well, probably I won’t, mate, to be honest. I’m probably just jumping up and down on the couch but you might see it. Yeah, and that’s what they train. So we wanna be able to hold the best technique without thinking about just training that as a habit. And the way we’ve gotta do that is do it in training. So as soon as you feel your form breaking down, yeah, it’s okay to push through it a little bit. You don’t wanna be training that bad technique because in the long run, yeah, while you might, your fitness might sort of be better short-term when you’re training that bad form, you just push through it, push through it.

Well, in the long run, you’ll be a lot quicker because you’re gonna train good form if you just like, take that little bit of a break. That’s such good advice and something that so many people will be able to apply myself included from tomorrow this afternoon if I can get out for a swim. And I imagine it kind of, I wanted to ask you about fins and drills and how if I just wanna get better at iron man or triathlon or an open water swim where I’m gonna swim freestyle, like why do I need to do some breaststroke and why do I need to do some backstroke and stuff like that? So is that, is the answer to that technique as well or if I jump the gun there? Yeah, I think mixing in other strokes, it’s just allows you to move in a different way. It gives some of those freestyle muscles a bit of a break and a bit of a rest. And especially with like freestyle, it’s obviously all on your front. And so when you do a bit of backstroke,

it can just open up the shoulders and just allow you to use those slightly different muscles. So I think it’s good to mix it up that way. And in terms of mixing in drills, anyone who’s watched any of my videos or podcasts that we do, you’ll probably get sick of me talking about doing drills. But when you’re looking to learn a skill, it can be hard to do it just by thinking about it. And so we wanna break down certain aspects of the stroke with drills and learn that aspect of it. That’s just a catch for example. So we practice that movement with a drill and then that’s gonna help us take that small component of it into the full stroke. So doing some drills in your warmup is so important if you wanna improve your technique. And people might think that or hear that and think, well, I’ve done drills before but they never really did anything. If you know what you’re focusing on with the drill and the purpose behind it,

you can really make some big improvements. But most people will just like hear a drill. Let’s say it’s single arm freestyle where you’re doing freestyle with one arm, that one’s by the side. You can do that drill all day but you can do it without thinking of any particular part of the stroke or anything that you’re trying to change. And it’s probably not gonna make any improvement if you don’t know what you’re focused on. So yeah, it’s a big part of what we try and do is just like explain why you’re doing the drill, what should you be getting right in it and how is that gonna translate to your full swim stroke? So yeah. I can give some why a mechanical basis to that. I mean, even your example of you wanna get a better freestyle so do a little bit of backstroke. You talked earlier on in our technique podcast about the need for to get some thoracic extension to be able to lift your chest up for certain parts of breathing in open water.

Well, I can tell you from a physio perspective that lifting your arm up above your head in backstroke is gonna facilitate you being able to get more thoracic extension. So it might be, you know, you’re doing backstroke not hopefully you never have to do backstroke in nine man because that’s usually an indication that you need some help from the lifestyles. But it will help as components of your freestyle like thoracic extension and then there’s that carry over there. So yeah, it does completely make sense. That’s it’s funny. I got an email yesterday, someone asking when I do like I do 25 of backstroke and then I go into freestyle that first lap after doing backstroke that first lap of freestyle is my fastest one. Why is that? I was like, I’m not really sure. So maybe you’ve answered that question for me. But I honestly think it is. I mean, one of the biggest common, one of the biggest problems that we see as physios

is people sitting down all the time and the world that we live in with phones and iPads and stuff like that is people lacking thoracic extension. They will roll their shoulders forwards. Their lungs will shrink a little bit. They won’t be able to expand down their diaphragm. I can give you a list of things that it does. Backstroke, this is why I love swimming for kids. One of many reasons. I think it’s good survival skill as well, but it just gets you out of that position, forces you to be as tall as possible, both broadens your shoulders and extends your spine. I don’t have a number on it, but I’m sure someone’s looked at it before about how much more volume you can get into your lungs in that position compared to if you’re, you know, you think about the opposite where you completely hunched and round shoulder. Just makes sense by mechanically. Yeah, and that breathing is such a key factor with swimming is a lot of swimmers who struggle with,

they feel breathless when they swim. One of those things is that they will breathe so shallow that they’re never getting that much air in. So it’s a short and fast breathing and they’re very little use of their diaphragm. And then when they finally switch it, I can’t remember the numbers on it. It’s something like, see the 40 or 60%, you can get 40 or 60% more air in when you breathe using your diaphragm compared to if it’s that short upper chest breathing. And yeah, it’s a huge number when you think of swimming, you know, and you’re only getting a couple of breaths compared to what you might do. Yeah, it’s really important to breathe well and with the right posture, chest open, it’s so much easier to do. Not only from an oxygen use and an expelling carbon dioxide perspective, but also between 40 and 60% more air has a pretty big effect on your flotation and your position in the water too, doesn’t it? Like full lungs, you’ll sit up higher,

you’ll be more streamlined compared to someone who’s just breathing APQ or the apex of their lungs not using their diaphragm. Short breaths just tend to sit lower in the water. Yeah, that’s right. It’s sort of like a, not like a self-fulfilling prophecy for people, but like when someone’s feeling like they’re exhausted when they swim, they’re usually going to breathe shorter and shallower and quicker. And so it’s just trying to be calm and relaxed. And that’s why being relaxed is a huge component of swimming well, but it’s not that easy to achieve straight off the bat because that’s not people’s first reaction when they go to water. If they have it, you know, if they’re not comfortable in it or they’re new to the sport, it’s like tense and panicked and like, you know, just, it’s hard to get them to relax, but when they get there, it’s like their whole swimming’s just turned upside down, but in the right ways. It really makes things a whole lot easier.

Brenton, it’s been such a good conversation, mate. People will have taken heaps out of this and everyone can probably hear in my voice the couple of light bulb moments I’ve had where realizations about my own training or my own technique, but mate, people are gonna wanna make contact with you. We will put some tags in the show notes and when we upload this, we’ll make sure that we tag effortlessly swimming, but where can people find you and if they do want some guidance, what are their options? Yeah, well, thanks for having me on. I’ve really, really enjoyed it. Yeah, so we run clinics around the country here in Australia, primarily Melbourne and Sydney, but we’re also in the other capital cities. So if you look up effortlessuming.com is where you’ll find all of those and we’ve got them fairly regularly and that’s where we do our underwater filming and analysis in these small group clinics and yeah, if you haven’t been filmed before

and if you do wanna improve your swimming, that’d probably be the main one for people who are listening. Otherwise, if you check out our YouTube, we’ve got heaps of videos there just to get you started with technique basically, but yeah, otherwise effortlessuming.com is probably the best place to find us. Thank you, thank you very much and I couldn’t be a bigger advocate of it. I mentioned earlier on that so many golfers go and see their golf pro for guidance and it should be, in my opinion, the same for all of the swimmers out there and the same for cyclists and the same for runners and hopefully these couple of podcasts can break down some of those barriers that have existed between people going to engage a swimming coach because it’s so useful, such a beautiful sport, so common that people participated in Australia. Hopefully we can make a few people a bit faster and keep them swimming a bit longer. Yeah, well, that’s the thing.

It’s very hard for an adult to find somewhere to go and see a swim coach because most of them are all for kids and that’s the feedback I get a lot is that there’s nothing out there for us, but yeah, that’s who we work with primarily is adults and yeah, no need to feel embarrassed about your stroke or you’re gonna be the oldest one there. Like it’s, yeah, we work with adults who might not have had a swim lesson before and yeah, and so people are pretty nervous coming into it thinking, oh, I’m gonna be the odd one out, but yeah, now we work with people without any swim experience. So yeah, that’s who I love working with because you can have the biggest improvements and just like it’s awesome watching someone go from like a 215 pace per 100 down to 145 over the course of maybe 12 months or 18 months and yeah, you can have some big improvements especially as an adult. So yeah, I love doing it and thanks for having me on the show Tim.

No worries, no one should be worried about coming down to your swimming clinic. I’ll be there in March and I’m certainly a slow hack swimmer so if I can go down, anybody can. I look forward to coming down and saying hello. Thanks for listening to the Effortless Swimming Podcast. If you’d like us to help you become a faster, more efficient swimmer, go to www.effortlesswimming.com.