I think the biggest downfall outside of over like the confidence issue and doing too much is they can’t let go of the pace. Like these are triathletes who care about time or master servers who care about time or people doing one mile, two mile swims. So like when and they just get so that I’m going to do five hours and I’m going to hold this pace and that’s not that’s not how it works. So you want to find a coach that you really connect with because they’re not a coach, they’re a mentor. If you find the right person and they want you to succeed for all the reasons you want to succeed. So I always encourage people like, don’t be afraid to reach out. Don’t be afraid to ask questions. Welcome to the Effortless Swimming Podcast to show that help swimmers and triathletes love the water, become a better swimmer and live a better life. Here’s your host, Brenton Ford.

Welcome to the Effortless Swimming Podcast, Craig Lewin. Welcome to your founder of endurance swimming. You’re a swimmer, past triathlete, but really into marathon swimming and coaching marathon swimmers. So I’d love to get you on the podcast today and just chat about what someone needs to consider when they’re going from maybe doing shorter distance swims or doing triathlon and venturing into the marathon swimming world. So welcome to the podcast, Craig. Thank you. Happy to be here. Very excited. We’re watching for quite some time, so it’s cool to be on this side of it. Yeah. Well, I’d love to get a little bit of just your background and your journey into marathon swimming and endurance swimming and ultimately coaching as well, because I mean, for my journey, it was I started off as a swimmer, a pool swimmer, started to do some open water swimming and really loved it. And then I started to do some coaching as well

and just found I loved working with other people. And it sounds like you have a somewhat similar journey as well. Yeah, it’s a it’s very similar to that. I started I started a little later. I didn’t start swimming till I was 13, which our pool swimmer is like way too late. But that’s the way I started in the pool. And then I think freshman year of college, I was swimming collegiately and I read Lin Cox’s book, Swimming to Antarctica. I’m like, I want to do that. And I started venturing into the open water worlds and just signed up for a 25 K swim with like outside of pool swimming. No real open water swimming experience. And I liked it, but I think I didn’t have the right resources at the time or knowledge and finished the collegiate years and transition to triathlon. And I really enjoyed my time doing triathlon. And I think that’s what led me into coaching, mainly because for me, going from pools, open water and realizing there’s a really large

discrepancy and difference in the pool and the open water swim. Like there’s just so much, so much more going on. And even within the open water worlds, you have lakes and rivers and ponds like freshwater and then you have the ocean. So for me, that’s what led me into coaching where I wanted to bridge that gap and kind of take my knowledge and and use that to help, I would say, adult onset swimmers make the transition into triathlon and feel comfortable, have good, good experiences coming from that first triathlon and then, you know, moving up the ranks through performance. And my time in triathlon was cut short. I was riding, I was hit by a car while riding a bike and training. As this one does these days, I feel like with texting and driving took some time off, just coached full time or not full time. But my free time and then about seven years ago, I said, all right, it’s time for me to do something cool.

Like all my all my athletes are doing Ironman. I was like super motivated by them. And I was like, all right, I gotta, I gotta get out there. I gotta do something big. I got to do something that I can do everything right and still fail. And that’s what started kind of a marathon swim journey where I attempted the Catalina channel and kind of got the bug from there. And then from there went to 20 bridges, Sinkless Channel. And then handful of other swims, which then as I developed into a different type of swimmer, I wanted to now bring that experience to coaching and started focusing my efforts on open water swimmers and marathon swimmer specifically. So it’s similar, similar journey to you, it sounds like. Well, you’ve done a lot more marathon swims than I have. They are my one hit wonder at the moment. But the thing I like about open water swimming and then sort of doing the solos of these different channels and things is it look tight.

Yeah, time’s a part of it, but it’s more just about the challenge of yourself. And it’s not about your competitors. It’s just about you setting a goal and working towards it and trying to overcome the physical challenges of it. But I think the mental challenges of it as well. That’s a big part of it. It’s a lot of time in the water. It’s a lot of time, just like solo time, just training and having to do the work that’s involved. So what was that process like for you? Was that something that you enjoyed or did you struggle with that at any point? So I actually thought that was my favorite part. I think having been a collegiate swimmer where everything is based on time and performing like coming in for a second, depending if you’re doing collegiate races or master’s swimming or or club swimming. It’s always about a time or making your cut. And I knew coming out of college, I wasn’t going anywhere like to the Olympics. I wasn’t that fast.

And I still wanted to to do something and try to kind of fill that with competition. But then for me, moving into marathon swimming, it was about like just doing something big and getting to the other side was enough. It had nothing to do with the time. Like when you talk to people in the math and swim world and they ask you, oh, what swims have you done? You say, oh, I’ve done, you know, English Channel or this. They never ask your time because there’s literally the difference between someone who’s done it in eight hours and someone who’s done it in 20 hours. Like they’re both English Channel swimmers. So for me, I think that was a big driver of why I took to the sport because I didn’t care about peace. I didn’t have to be the swimmer I once was. I’m a whole different and I would say probably stronger, more confidence over now than I was ever like in high school or college. Yeah, it’s fantastic. And now that you’re working with a lot of people to help them

train for these sort of events and by getting, I guess, a really good feel and understanding of what someone goes through when they transition from shorter swims or triathlon to these longer swims. What are some things that people should consider if they’re thinking about making that transition across? Yeah, it’s a jump. You know, I think the number one thing for me that I am part of my swimmers is building a support network. And, you know, as a coach, coaching for distance is very easy, right? Like if the swimmer is doing the work, the workouts or workouts, like most people don’t fail. Like if you’re doing a, you know, a 10K up to 20, 25 miles swim, it’s not usually the distance that gets you. It’s something else. And a lot of the times it’s not having the right support network. So for me, that’s always the first is like, who who’s your crew? Like, do you know who’s going to be in your crew? Because they’re going to be along for the whole journey.

As you’re doing your long swims, as you’re doing your training, you need those people there with you so that they know who you are as a swimmer. They know when you’re in trouble. They know when you’re just being kind of cranky and tired. And they can find ways to keep you safe and get you through the tough spots. But the support network is not just like who’s in your boat. It’s it’s your coach. It’s your strength and conditioning specialist. It’s your nutritionist. Like there’s a huge amount of of like time and resource that are going to go into you for doing one of these largest now and at a 10K level, less so. But you still want to find those people that understand what you’re doing because I think a big, big difference in pool versus open water is distance per stroke, right? You go with I grew up at least and it was always distance per stroke. Like is what you you need in the in the pool. But when you start getting into an open water environment,

some of the better swimmers are doing, you know, 60 or just 30 stroke cycles a minute, 35, 40 stroke cycles a minute. So they’re getting up there. Whereas a pool coach will look at that, be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, what are you doing? Like that’s that’s way inefficient. But when you get into the open water world, it’s not. So it’s more about surrounding yourself with with knowledgeable people. And then on top of that, like I said, it’s I think anyone, you know, who understands basic physiology can coach someone for the distance. So you really do need to find a mentor. So I urge any all my athletes to reach out to people that, you know, who’ve done these swims that they want to do. Some of them English channel, some are more common, but then I have other swimmers who are, yeah, there’s only been six people who’ve ever done this swim or two people have ever done this swims. I’m like, well, reach out to those two because they’re going to know

everything you need to know about logistics and planning and what what are the pitfalls? Where are the weird currents that you need to plan for? So it’s really about building information and building a really strong network for making that jump from like the, I say, 5K, 10K distance up to 15 mile, 20 mile, but it also doesn’t happen overnight. So a lot of people will come and they’ll say, oh, great. I want to do an English channel next year. Well, that’s not possible for a handful of reasons. Mainly if you don’t have your pilot, then it’s definitely not happening. You know, it depends on your background and what you’ve been doing in the water. Some it’s possible, some it’s not, but it’s they need time to develop and they need time to get out into tough conditions and really challenge themselves as an open water swimmer because. A suitable day is not a good day. A suitable day just means they feel comfortable bringing you out

and it’s safe enough, but it can be five, you know, it’d be five foot swell or, you know, a meter or two meter swell. That’s sort of a fun day for anyone. It could be, you know, it could be pouring out. It’s not fun, but you’re swimming in it. You need to figure out how to get through. So it’s really about just finding the right people to guide you along.

And that’s like for you, who of those people being for you? I’m sure you’ve had a lot over the journey, but who’s your support crew being so for me, when I started taking it more seriously post college, like when I found the right resources, there’s a coach out of California. His name is Dan Simonelli. He’s basically, he knows the Catalina channel inside and out. And to me, I needed a coach that would give me accountability, but I also wanted someone who knew those waters and they knew people in the area with Catalina, you need to also have a kayaker. So some of these swims they require just a boat. Summer, a boat and a kayaker. So he knew all the rules. He knew all the observers. He knew everyone. So as I had questions along the way, it wasn’t just coaching. It was it was that mentoring. It was saying, OK, this is what it’s going to be like the last mile. So, you know, really chill. We know you’re excited on the first mile and you’re nervous, but like chill

because that last mile is going to be the hardest mile of your life. So for me, it started with him and then from there, it just, you know, he was very supportive in the same way that I try to be with my athletes. And he’s like, reach out to this person, reach out to that person. So I started meeting a lot of different swimmers along the way. He encouraged master swimming. So I was swimming with a group out of MIT, the tech master’s group. So I had developed a couple, you know, good, I guess, swim relationships with people. So I had like swim buddies that knew what I was doing. So there were all these like different people that you just kind of pick up along the way. And then in terms of like crew and the bow, I like to keep a lean crew. And my dad has kind of been the person who’s seen me through triathlon and my early days of marathon swimming. So he knows me inside and out. And in terms of like kayaking, going to the beach, making sure I was safe

in training, it was him and my mom were like, literally in the kayak all weekend. Like I was lucky to have to, you know, my parents is that, which can go inside out with me. They’d know, you know, when you’re really cranky, when it’s just, you know, if you’re just hungry or tired, exactly. I just did a podcast with Sharon VanRivendale and Melisha Johnson, who got one and two in the 10k at the Olympics. And they were saying that in the in that swim, like they’re training buddies and they’d live together for like the year leading into Paris. And they said, like, they’re either one and two, right? I think Sharon led the first relapse, Melisha led the last relapse. And like Sharon was looking around and she’s like, all right, they’re sort of gaining on us. So she’d like sort of tap Moe’s feet and just be like, all right, we’ve got to get going now. And they’d like, they’d know what each other was thinking. It’s just like all these things that like, there’s no words spoken,

but just these little like, yeah, these little actions, they like, they know what they meant just because they got to know each other so well. So it’s, you know, when you live with someone or your parents have raised you, it’s just like they have a good idea of whatever even like little grimace means, right? Like they pick up on that stuff. Yeah, they know when you’re in trouble, type of Serbia, they know all of it. Like, so it’s, it’s nice to have. Yeah, absolutely. Now, in terms of the training side of things, how do you find people manage the volume and what about the recovery side of it? Do you find that people over train or they go too hard too early in the lead up to an event that they’re training for? Like, what, what are some common things that you find there with people? Yeah, I think it’s, it comes down to confidence. So no matter how good of a server you are, if you’ve never done anything in any sport, you tend to overdo it.

So I’ll get a lot of people and I, and in my training, it works since it’s a four week cycles. So it’s different each week is a different focal point. The volume builds, it caps off with like your two culminating long swims for the week. And then the next week is a recovery because I need them to like, no, no, you need to chill. You need to fix your technique. You need to go up your massage. Like, there’s all these things I need you to do. And if I let you kind of go on your own, you’re literally probably going to do like 50 K every single week and then occur in two months and not make it. So in my plans, I’ll give people a ring of volume range. And I say, if you’re feeling OK, it’s OK to go to the upper range. And if you’re not feeling great, it’s OK to be in the lower range. Because in the end, it’s about the aggregate and getting the long swims in. And it takes a lot of time because a lot of these people are triathletes.

They are they are people who’ve done Iron Man and they’re looking for like the next challenge, like, OK, I’ve done Iron Man, English channels, like the next on my list, it’d be really cool. Sounds awesome, impressed people, whatever. So it’s like kind of the natural progression for a lot of triathletes. And in their head, they’re they’re very type A and they’re very driven. And but they also the ones I’ve I’ve I’ve worked with they they know they can go for a long time, but they don’t know how they’re going to handle the cold. They don’t know how they’re going to handle certain elements. So they start like trying to do everything at once. And that’s just like when you’re learning to swim or you’re doing technique, you can’t fix four things at once. You got to fix one at a time. So it’s the same thing is adding it in, you know, into the progression and into the training plan at the right time. And by the end of it, they feel like they’re in a good place.

So I think more than anything, people they just will do way too much because they don’t have the confidence and they are trying to make up for it by saying, oh, if I swim a lot of the time. And yeah, they end up hurt. Yeah, yeah, exactly right. It’s like a phrase that I just sort of tell myself if I am training for like something something bigger, it’s like there’s no hero sessions, no hero efforts. Like you don’t want to just absolutely kill yourself in one session or within a week because like it’s it’s the aggregate that we’re going for. We’re not just trying to have these amazing efforts in individual sessions because like if you have two or three weeks out of the water because you’re injured and you’ve overdone it, it might take you six weeks to get back to where you you were. So you’re better off just having this sort of steady base. And I heard a good quote from the runner. I think it’s Yuck of Ingebrootson.

He something along the lines of like, think of yourself as a farmer where you’ve planted these carrots. And if you put the carrots too soon, you can’t replant them. So the longer you can just wait for these things to grow and then you pull them out down the track. Well, that’s that’s when you’re going to have so much more success and you’re going to have these these bigger carrots. And it’s like if you can take that philosophy, especially into your training, but your technique, like if you can just work on one element of your stroke for four weeks or eight weeks and not be concerned with the time, not be concerned with your pace that that’s giving you. It’s like that’s going to help you so much more down the track in the long run. So just planting these seeds, just working on them and not looking at when they once they have not pulling them up. Then you will find yourself six months, 12 months down the track

and you’ll be swimming better. You’ll be swimming faster and they’ll be a part of your stroke. But I think people are just wanting to see the results straight away or they’re not willing to wait longer to see it.

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Yeah, I think the biggest downfall outside of like the confidence issue and doing too much is they can’t let go of the pace. Like these are triathletes who care about time or master servers who care about time or people doing one mile, two mile swims to like win. And they just get so that I’m going to do five hours and I’m going to hold this pace and that’s not how it works when you start doing these very, very long swims. Like and I’m not talking 5K, 10K Olympic level. We’re talking about average person, you know, 30s, 40s, 50s, have a family, have a job. Like it’s it’s a different it’s a different mentality. Like these are people training crazy hours, but they have to let go of the time and like the pace. And there’s a lot of, you know, it’s kind of like like Zen, you know, it’s like going, it’s like that flow state of really just going with it and letting the conditions dictate how you are swimming and really is not feeling good,

because you’re not going to put in 80 percent effort for 11 hours. It’s just it’s not going to help. You might feel like 80 percent, but, you know, compared to like your threshold effort in the pool, you’re not holding that pace. So it’s more, you know, I’m assuming with the 5 and 10 care like in the Olympics, where there’ll be like attacks and the pace will the jump randomly and then slow down than jump. It’s the same thing in the open water for a solo marathon swim, because there might be a current or this might or or a wind shield or something might change. Or you’re in the shipping lanes of the English Channel and they’re like yelling, you got to you got to move, you got to sprint, you got to sprint. And that’s four hours in. But then once you get to that hour, you can, you know, just chill or, you know, go back to your normal pace. But you need to have those gears. And if you are so bent out of shape about what the watch says,

that’s very detrimental, I think, to a lot of people’s training early on, but by the end, they start to to accept it and really enjoy just swimming and getting in that that mental state of like, just, you know, go with the flow versus I’m holding this piece. And this is the time I want to be. Yeah, you don’t want to be chasing speed or times. You want to be chasing that feeling of flow and just being present in there and like almost being able to switch off, you know, in a way where you just, you know, half an hour passes and you blink and it’s yeah. And you’re like, OK, that was that was half an hour or an hour. Like, that’s kind of what you want to get into in a way. And you have to just like, let kind of have to let things go. Right? You have to just like, yeah, no worry about the pace. One question I was going to ask in terms of the marathon swimming is that is an important factor there? Is it just being able to hold your, hold your stroke rate,

hold your tempo, aside from when you need to pick it up? Like, is that something that’s you’d sort of look at a little bit more rather than stroke length, which obviously we can’t measure in the open water, but like, is it is it tempo? Yeah, I mean, stroke rate is pretty important. You’ll see a lot of swimmers will have their crew with whiteboards and one of the numbers they’re writing down is stroke rate. I think it’s also a number that observers for colder swims will often watch because if it drops below, if it’s dropping rapidly and the swimmer can’t pick it up, it’s a sign of hypothermia and it might be time to call a swim. But stroke rate is one because it’s it’s that consistent motion throughout the swim, mainly because if you start getting stretched out too much or you start revving up and you’re slipping, you know, if you’re in salt water, it’s less dense than a pool. It’s more aerated. So you you need the turnover because even if you had if you had

a same stroke rate in a pool or open water, you’re not going to go as far with every pull in the open water because it’s less dense water because it’s aerated because there’s chop and swell. So that’s why the stroke rate does does tend to matter. But everyone’s different. Like you see people like Adam, Adam Walker, I don’t know if you’ve ever talked to him, but he’s an ocean seven swimmer and he has probably one of the longest strokes I’ve seen and it works. So everyone’s different. But, you know, for average, average people, it’s generally the stroke keeping that tempo throughout and that consistency throughout is going to be a really important factor in their success.

And now in terms of the mental side of things and building that confidence, what do you see some important things to help people develop that in themselves so that they get to their crossing or get to their longer swim where they’re like, all right, I I’m confident that I’ve done the work. I’m confident that I can withstand the cold and all those sorts of things.

It’s it’s the long swims. So in just like you do marathon training, I mean, training, you have progressively longer bikes, longer runs is the same thing in swimming. So you’re going to see a lot of swimmers, they get their training plan and their first long swims are like two or three hours. And they’re like, oh, that’s really long. But when I give plans, they’re seeing their whole plan. Like I want them to see what they’re what the next like, you know, six months, seven months of their life is going to look like because they understand the commitment, they’ll see two or three hours and then they’re going to get to the end and they see back to back like eight, nine hour swims in their head. They’re like, there’s no way I’m ever going to get there. And it’s kind of really scary. But then every week or not every week, but every cycle that long swim gets a little longer. So it’s like two, three hour swims. And it’s, you know, a four hour and a two hour than a five.

So it’s progressively gets longer. But every one of those swims is a dress rehearsal. Because that’s the time you’re learning what to eat, when to eat, how Austin, how are you getting fed? You know, how do you like the food you were eating, you know, two hours in versus six hours in because these are all important things. So it’s it’s about basically making the long swims, just another routine. So when you get to the day of, you’re like, I’ve done the work. I’ve done the long swims. I know not every hour, every half hour is going to feel good. And I know how I’m going to dig deep and get to the next half hour. And it’s those long swims where you build those mental, like your mental toolbox, right? That’s where you’re learning what your motivation is. What are your coping mechanisms? What do you need to hear? What do you not want to hear? Like, for example, like when my crew asked how I’m feeling, like eight

hours into a swim, like, how do you think I’m feeling? I’m cold, I’m tired. This doesn’t feel great. Like I want to be done, you know, so like knowing what sets you off and communicating that clearly to your crew. But basically it’s those long swims or your dress rehearsal so that you’ve literally done that, that big attempt 50 times, you know, before because you’ve just every long training. So you’ve had a chance to practice and refine. So by the time you get to the end, like, oh, this is just like another training day and you don’t really, it doesn’t make you nervous. I think it’s a lot of, I’m sure, you know, you’ve entered into a lot of Olympians and elite swimmers and triathletes and they have that routine, and I think that routine is what helps them. It’s like, no, that’s like what gets them in the mental space. They do the visualization because they’re like, well, I’ve visualized it. I’ve practiced it in theory thousands and thousands of times.

So this is no different. And that’s, I think the key is doing those long swims and controlling training for what you can control. The other stuff you can’t worry about. You can’t worry about the weather. You can’t worry about certain factors. You focus on what you can control. You save the energy for that and you don’t worry about the rest. Yeah. And you just walk in your routine. And I think that’s what people get the confidence and end up being successful.

I love it. I was listening to someone talk about like public speaking and how that’s it’s a really hard thing for people to do. They get really nervous and yeah, and then they get nervous and they sort of stumble on their words and those sorts of things. And he was saying a similar thing. It’s like, well, if you’ve rehearsed and you’ve rehearsed that talk a thousand hundred times, well, you’re probably not going to be that nervous. And you’re not going to be worried about what the different things you’re going to be saying. You’re not going to be worried about what people are thinking because you’ve just been through that in your head so many times. And if you can do that same thing with with your swimming, where it’s like, well, I’ve done an eight hour swim. I’ve done a 10 hour swim. Yeah, I’m used to it. Then it’s just it’s not new and it’s like anything new. It takes a lot of brain power to understand what’s happening and to be

able to feel comfortable. But if we’re just in that zone where it’s like, you know, all right, I’ve done this before. I’ve got these neural pathways developed where I don’t have to think too much about it, then you can save all that energy for the things that you can’t control. So yeah, it’s it’s it’s simple, but I think it’s often overlooked because it’s it’s that simple, just that progressive buildup and progressive increase in whatever it is you want to do. And I heard a similar thing about like someone who’s scared of spiders. It’s like, well, all right, what I have to do, right? Well, let’s start with a small spider that’s in another room. And then we’ll take away that little that window that you can see the spider through and they’ll go bigger and like same thing, just progressively build it up. So yeah, I really, really like it. And I remember when I trained for my one and only marathon swim, we ended up building up to maybe doing 16 Ks out in the open water

before the swim. And if I looked at that six months beforehand, I’m like, there’s no way I’m doing 16 Ks, just with me and a friend in the Bay for whatever it was for five hours. But at the time, it’s like, oh, this is kind of easy. It’s actually not that hard, but it’s because each week we just built it up, you know, started with 4K, that’s six, eight and so on. So yeah, lots to be said for it.

Yeah, I think the other pieces, at least when you get to the least any any real open water ocean swim is you want to train in the conditions you’re going to experience. And that doesn’t mean like what you’re going to experience on a perfect day. So I always recommend like the days where you look out and you know, it’s safe to swim, but I don’t want to swim because it’s windy, it’s rainy, it’s choppy. Like those are the days like no one wants to swim. But those are the days you have to swim because those are swimmable, like if it’s safe and you have the right, you know, support ever can place to make sure you stay safe.

You could get that day and you don’t want your swim day to be your big attempt day to be the first day you experience it like that is nothing new on race day if you can, you know, avoid it. So so like I always, you know, I focus more on suffering training or, you know, it’s like suffering training or suffering on the day. I like myself and my athletes suffer and suffer in training because you want to enjoy that day. That’s like your victory. Hmm. Yeah, definitely. Is there anything anything else that comes to mind that feel like people should know if they are looking to do these longer swims? Yeah, I mean, like I said, I think it’s about finding the right people to help guide you. I think there’s ladies in this world with social media, like there’s just like a lot of people who are good at marketing and can talk, but, you know, haven’t necessarily been there, don’t have the right accolades and are in it for a different reason.

So I always tell athletes, like when you’re looking for a coach and even when they come to me as a coach, I tell them before they work with me, I’m like, I want you to talk to three or four other coaches, here’s some names. Like I want you we’re in this together. Like I’m committed as you are committed. Like if you you don’t succeed on this on one of your attempts, like I’m in it with you, we’re going to figure it out. Like they’re in tears. I’m in tears. If they’re celebrating, I’m celebrating. So you want to find a coach that you really connect with because they’re not a coach. They’re a mentor and if you find the right person and they want you to succeed for all the reasons you want to succeed. So I always encourage people like don’t be afraid to reach out. Don’t be afraid to ask questions like open water swimmers is like triathletes and any other sport. They like talking and they want to help people. So, you know, if you go reach out to that person,

you’re you know, you’re following on, you know, who’s done all these swims, like email them. They are probably more than happy to talk to you and give you some pointers or ways that you can at least get started and where you should be looking for resources. So that would be my only advice. Like don’t be afraid to have questions and like talk to several people before settling on like your coach and trust your trust the training, trust the process. Those are like the main main keys outside of some of the stuff we’ve already talked about today. It’s it’s really and enjoy it. It’s fun. It’s transformative. You’re going to be a different person on the other side of it. So I think it’s one of the best things I’ve ever done. Yeah, well, I mean, just I can tell that you that you love that you love this sport, love the coaching side of it to you. So it sounds like you’re where you need to be, where you should be. And yeah, that’s that’s terrific.

And I mean, especially with the coaching side of things, you know, most most coaches are going to be like they’re going to ride that way with you up or down and and then to pass on the details of someone else who can might be a better fit for you, whatever you’re training for. So yeah, and it is it’s a quite a small world as well. Like everyone generally sort of knows each other. And so, you know, just talk to different people. Everyone’s always happy to help, especially in this in this kind of world. I reckon it’s yeah, everyone’s so you because it’s not competitive necessarily. It’s just everyone’s there to challenge themselves and help others. So in terms of people who want to get in touch with you, whether that’s for coaching, I know you’ve got sort of a conference coming up. So what’s what have you got coming up and what’s the best way for people to get in touch with? Oh, yeah. So in November, I decided to, you know,

try to make a bigger impact with more people and starting an open waterson focus conference called Beyond the Breakers. It’s going to be right outside Boston Mass in November, November 9th and 10th. The website for it is swimbeyondthebreakers.com. And we have a really great lineup of speakers. I think for my own journey, I really what I’ve really first started, I struggle to find the right people. And they’re really easy to find once you know where to look. So that’s what this conference is all about is about connecting people in the open water world. So whether you’re a triathlete, one mile swim, two mile swim, Olympians, I think 10 K, we’re looking to make the jump to like the big marathon swims. And even winter swimming, we have some winter swimming speakers. We have we have people there that can that are going to be giving presentations to really help guide. So we have some some great names, but really it’s all about

connection, helping drive some innovation in this for and really just helping people achieve their goals, whether they’re just getting in the open water for the first time or doing some like crazy long, you know, 48 hour swim. So, yeah, so that’s a website. And then for my own business, the website’s liquid try.com. It’s endurance swimming is a company, you know, very original name, but does the does the trick. That’s what we do. And then on Instagram, I’m just at endurance swims so you can always reach out anywhere. People have questions. I like putting people on the right path and I urge people to reach out and ask questions. Like I said, if I’m not the right person, I will help find the right person so that you can, you know, do what you set out to do. Fantastic. Well, Craig, thanks so much for being on the podcast. Looking forward to seeing what you do in the future in terms of your swims, but also, you know, great to see someone who’s active in the in the industry

and in the sport that’s looking to grow it and help other people. So I appreciate being on the podcast. Thank you for having me. Thanks for listening to the Effortless Swimming Podcast. If you’d like us to help you become a faster, more efficient swimmer, go to www.effortlesswimming.com.