Welcome to the Effortless Swimming podcast to show that help swimmers and triathletes love the water, become a better swimmer and live a better life. Here’s your host, Brenton Ford.

Alright, welcome to the Effortless Swimming podcast. I’ve got a repeat guest on and someone who is very special. In fact, she is the queen, the Queen of England English Channel, but Chloe McCartle. Chloe, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for having me on. So as of October last year, you just broke the world record for the most crosses of the English Channel at 44 crossings, which is an insane amount of crossings. Most people wouldn’t consider doing 44 laps when they go to the pool, but it is a huge achievement. So first of all, congratulations on that huge achievement. And like how do you feel now that you’ve got it? Because I didn’t know this was something you were going for, but I imagine you’ve had it in your mind for quite a while. Like how long have you thought about this for?

Yeah, it’s a very special title. I’m very honoured to now have this so Queen of the Channel is the woman in the world with the most channel crossings, but I also happen to be ten ahead of the King of the Channel, the man with the most. So it’s the overall overall world record. I’ve been dreaming about this since 2016. So probably just the last five years. I didn’t didn’t start thinking about this when I started channel swimming. It kind of came mid-career. And because I’m trying to think when I had you on the podcast last, it was probably 2017, I’m I’m guessing. And were you just were you thinking I’ll just keep because you’re over there quite a bit? You know, you think I’ll just keep ticking them off and it’ll eventually happen or was it something that you sort of set aside a majority of your year to be able to commit to?

Yeah, you got that in one with your first guess. So because I coach so many people from the English Channel, it’s been over 150 people now since 2013. I’m over there with my commitments to them anyway. So what I was doing and I have been doing for the last five years or so is slotting in swims whenever I can around my commitments to my clients and just knowing in the back of my head, as long as I consistently keep adding at least a few each year than at some point, as long as I keep going back and getting in the water that I’ll get there, because none of the other swimmers that were high up with channel swims, as in total numbers, are actively swimming. None of them are actually swimming for at least nearly 15 years. So I figured that I just got to keep at it, keep my eye on the prize and keep coming back and splashing my way to France. Yeah, talk about patience like it’s, yeah, that is that’s consistency. It’s patience over the last couple of years

to be able to do it. And have you has it got any easier over the last couple of years that you’ve been doing it? Or is it since you’ve done your first couple, has it been pretty much the same in terms of how you view it now?

I think by the time, I guess, 2015 rolled around by then I could consistently like bang out a channel swim for one of a better word so that a general channel swim is more like a tough training swim. And by the time I had that confidence, like so that year in 2015, I did three single crossings in six days and they’re all under 10 hours. So I had the confidence at that stage and I’m like, I can, I can just on, you know, minimal turnaround or minimal recovery, get in and get the swims done. And I don’t need to focus on them really intently as individuals, but I can run campaigns and run them concurrently while looking after my clients overseas. So it’s not something that I was complacent about. I just I guess I created a formula for me, something that really worked. And I think that everyone has the opportunity to find something in their life that’s personal, professional or sporting that if they really want to master and be really good at it and

focus on energy on it, they can get to the point of mastery where, you know, for them to achieve that tasks or keep hitting that goal, it’s, you know, it’s there at a point where it doesn’t take as much energy as it does other people because that level of mastery and for single crossings, I’m not gonna say I have that level of confidence for anything more than that in the channel as in doubles of the singles. I definitely reached a point, I would say of mastery in 2015. Was there has it been any that you’ve attempted and hadn’t been able to complete it because of weather or health or anything like that?

The single crossings, I have 100% success rate, which I’m super proud of because it shows consistency and it shows that I have always taken them really seriously, although to a point, some of that is luck because anyone can get hit by issues such as mechanical failure of the boat and that would abort a swim. No matter how good the swimmer is or how close you are to France, that’s a swim abort it. A heavy fog, for example, reduces visibility. So if you’re coming towards the shipping lanes or in the ship international shipping lanes, you know, with huge ships that could be 800 meters long and have 2000 containers on them. Like if there’s heavy fog, your swim is aborted. So I’ve never had that situation and that is luck. But the rest of it is, you know, consistency and training and things like that. So the other three swimmers that are at 30 plus channel swims all have at least one failure. Yeah, wow. That’s that’s single crossings, one failure.

So I have I had been unsuccessful on return trips. So my first attempt to double crossing the English channel, my first year channel swimming, I didn’t finish the second leg, as in the second crossing back to England, that’s an unsuccessful. My first two attempts at triple crossing of the English channel were unsuccessful. Any of the second or the third leg then I tried the quadruple crossing one year and that was just really unsuccessful. So I didn’t like to fail and have that acute pain and that following kind of depression after a big event we’ve been unsuccessful. So I do know those feelings. I had that understanding empathy for swimmers that go through that. I have a bit of both. I have success, I have failure as well. Do you are you driven to continue to build up the numbers to keep crossing it or now that you’ve got that achievement, are you content with where you’re at at least for now? I got to a point where I think if

I did more channel crossings

in fact, you’re probably not even motivated to do the crossings right now. It wouldn’t really add in specialness to to what my journey so far for me. I was really focused on getting this Queen the channel journey for about what crossing total was I have from about 20, 15 or 20. So it’s been a slow burn to get to 44 from let’s say number 15.

So I’ve been, yeah, I’ve been both like moving along this journey in anticipation of finishing, you know, like, you know, when you look forward to Christmas, like wanting it to come sooner and you can’t wait, you look forward to it. But on the other end, I’m like, oh, my God, this is just going on and on forever. So there’s a part of me that just did did want to put a closure on this part of my journey and I really felt that I had that moment at the end of the 44th swim. I had the euphoric feeling that I was I’d been hoping for for years. I had great press coverage. I was front page of two UK newspapers after the 44th swim. And I had that that moment of closure. So in saying that, if anyone tries to threaten the record

for Australia and women for all the things that I love about the channel. But I just don’t think that’s going to be happening in the next decade or so. So I’ve got a decade at my sleeve where I can go on other adventures and speaking of other adventures, I’ve got another another adventure happening this year, which is very exciting. So do you want to actually, before we jump into that one, which we’ll cover in a second, which it’s yeah, I’m excited to talk about about that. What what was it like for you when you when you’re maybe halfway through the swim on your last lap and you thought, yeah, OK, I’ve got this in the bag and, you know, this is probably going to be the last time at least for a while. What was that experience like towards the end and when you your feet landed on the sand? Like how how did you feel?

Yeah, it’s so interesting you say that and I had so so many mixed feelings leading to that last swim and a few radio announcers will ask me, you know, are you feeling nostalgic? What do you think your thoughts will be of that last swim? So when I got into it at about halfway, that’s when sunrise came. So I was really soaking in that last sunrise because I knew there was a really good possibility it could be the last English Channel sunrise that I ever experienced as a swimmer. And I don’t know if you’ve been on one of these channel boats, but they’re amazing. The sunrises, I just can’t convey how rich they are, how beautiful they are and how epic they are when you’re in the middle of the channel and the sun is rising and there’s ships in the background and and you’re just one little swimmer traversing between two countries. So I really I was more present than I guess I usually am because I knew that it was my my last chance to make memories

of something that is really close, something very special to me. I call the English Channel my spiritual home. So I was trying to really be present, be in the moment, collect all those positive memories. But in saying that, it’s still still a 10 hour swim. So it’s still one moment. Some moments was like, oh no, I kind of hope we get near the end as we’ve got the last two to three hours towards the end. I was like, shit, where’s the media boat? Like, is it coming? So my team and I, my media team in the UK, had organised a second separate media boat to come out. But because we didn’t know exactly when I’m finished, there was no logistics to make all that happen. It’s like herding cats trying to get 10 different media outlets to send the representatives to get on a boat at the same time and find out from the channel like that is a bit of a logistical task. So I was like, oh, is it going to come? It’s late. So I was fretting a little

bit. I actually slowed down in the last swim. I was so paranoid that it was not going to make the end in time. I slowed my stroke down. Now I wish I hadn’t. I did 10 hours one minute and I’m definitely going to have 10 hours. And I was also really great along throughout that swim that the conditions were really favourable. They were nearly flat conditions the whole way. The air temp was pretty good. It wasn’t warm. It was mid-autumn. But it was definitely, it wasn’t overcast. I would call that favourable for an autumn swim in England. And I was a little bit concerned because I had a chest infection. So ideally, I wouldn’t have been swimming a channel on that day. But as my pilot was going on holiday the next day, it was either swim that day or wait two weeks to then have an opportunity. Not a guarantee but an opportunity for women. It’s a further into autumn. So I was a little bit concerned about that. And when I got near the end,

I did kind of have this feeling like, at least surreal feeling like, is this it? Is this all I have to do? Well, I had to cross the waterline like, and then it became kind of a little bit like, is this just too easy?

There weren’t even big waves. I didn’t have to navigate huge boulders, which I do often. And a really good friend from France, Patrice Chasserie, who follows channel swimmers and tries to meet them at the swim finishes wherever he can. He was down there and he had this this bottle of champagne and he printed the label on and he was like, congratulations, Chloe, World Record 44. And he had it to me. I was like, oh, my God, that’s so beautiful. So I had a really lovely moment on show. I didn’t want to really be there by myself. Like, yay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, what I do with my hands. Yeah. Go in here. Go ahead.

Did the media boat make it? Yeah, yeah, they did. They had to keep a distance. So I didn’t I didn’t get that many good shots. They did their best. But and there’s some drone footage. So yeah, everything went really quite well. It was interesting, quite interestingly, quite uneventful because channel swimmers can all sorts of things can go wrong and challenges come your way. And in terms of channel swimmers, definitely one of the easiest I’ve done. Not that it’s ever easy, but it was forgiving, which I really wanted my last one because I’ve had some horrible swings over the years and I had the chest infection. So it was it was nice to have a forgiving swing where I didn’t feel like, you know, I had to punish myself just to get to France. Yeah, Mother Nature awarded you for 43 crossings and delivered one. Yeah, served one up for you. It’s good. It’s good to know.

And so and now that you’ve you’ve done that year, you’ve been doing this for a while, you’re moving into more coaching people, which you’ve done for a while, but also trips. And so we’re chatting almost just before Christmas when we caught up down in Geelong. And there’s a trip that you or a swim that you’ve come up with and you’ll be running this season and and ongoing that sounds pretty crazy by from what I’ve heard in terms of the distance and everything, but something that’s quite new to the relay swimming community. So do you want to talk a bit about about that and who’s involved and what’s happening with it? Yeah, I’d love to. I’m really excited. This is my new passion now that my chapter on this child swimming has closed for now anyway. And that’s a new relay format that I’m launching with my own support boat, my own pilots, my own swim association to ratify it. And that is relays between England starting at Ramsgate,

which is in the southeast. It’s in Kent, quite close to Dover, but further north. So Ramsgate to Newport, which is a coastal town in Belgium and it’s just over the French border. So it probably only be a 20 minute drive if you drive from Dunkirk. And all the good listeners may be familiar with that place in northern France. The distance, as you said, it is so much further than the channel. It’s 2.5 times the distance. So it’s a 92 kilometer relay swim. And the relays have 10 swims each and they rotate every 30 minutes. And so why I’ve championed this new relay format is that I feel that I want to make open water swimming swimming and inventions where we go on escrow boat and achieve a brand new huge achievement. I want to make it more accessible to more people. And at the moment with English channel swimming rotations need to be one hour. And I think that to some people that works really well and for other people it actually turns them off

even thinking about doing a relay in this channel because they think, oh, how can I do a full hour in the English channel each time in water that could be anywhere from 13 to say 17 Celsius, depending on when you swim. So what I’ve done is drop the relay rotations down to 30 minutes. And I really want to encourage people to see this as something quite achievable even though it’s really difficult. I mean, the North Seas were known for very choppy stormy weather and the water temperature is just a tad colder than the English channel. So it’s still challenging. But in the back of their mind, they know that they only need to swim 30 minutes per rotation. And so in a team of 10 over five hours, it’s just one rotation in 10. So 30 minutes of swimming, four and a half minute hours, sorry, not minutes, four and a half hours of resting on the boat, sleeping, socializing, having food. There’s a proper kitchenette. There’s four cabins on the boat.

It’s quite a comfortable boat and more comfortable than you’ll find in the English channel area. So I’m really excited about this. And there’s three relays running this year in 2022, two relays running next year. And next year, there’s an Aussie only relay. So any of the Aussies out there that think, hey, I really want to do this, but I want to do it with my fellow countrymen and women. I’m really excited to announce I’ve beclosed off a whole exclusive relay to give you a chance to have that experience. So there’s been a really good interest rate from interest rate. I mean, interest. Previous swimmers on my program, they’ve done the English channels. They’re kind of getting excited and signing up. So I’ve already got three Aussies in there who have swum the English channel in relays. And it’s really exciting because for me, my English channel journey, although I’ve swum the channel 44 times, a lot of my journey is also coaching swimmers

and crewing on their boats and vicariously living through their journeys as they swim the English channel. And to have these returning swimmers is really special because it shows me that they really enjoyed that experience and they want to go on a new adventure. So it feels like I’m going through a bit of a reunion with a lot of my swimmers because they’re now coming back. And this is like phase two or this is like the next thing that we get to do together and I get to be part of the journey. So I’m really excited about what the future holds and I love that I can keep these connections, this era of the world. So the North Sea, where these swims are going to happen, it’s virtually next door to the English channel. It’s only about 20 kilometers north. So it’s essentially the same water, although the waters acts a little bit differently because it’s not in geographically the same containment. But I’m really excited to get back out there.

I don’t want to say goodbye to my adventures in the Northern Hemisphere. I’m going to keep having these ventures for as long as I can. Well, the good thing about that too is with the English channel association and like it’s a certain number of swims that can be done every year and where you’re running edits a new route and you can basically, you’ve got like mostly, like not free reign, but you can organize it when works best and there’s no limitations on it. Is that right? Yeah, it is. It’s really interesting you bring that up. You may have heard that there’s a three to four year wait now to book an English channel solo or relay, which is very unfortunate for people that want to get out there and challenge themselves but not sure they can commit to something that far in advance. And this opens up a whole new opportunity for swimmers to achieve something great, which is very similar to a channel swim. In some ways, in a relay format,

it’s harder because it’s two and a half times as far and colder water, chop your water without having to wait three to four years to get an opportunity. And yes, you’re right. I could run them virtually whenever I wanted. I only have one boat, so we can only work in one activity at any one time. But there is a lot of flexibility so I can make the most of the English summer and the English early autumn, which is ideal because it’s better water temperature than the rest of the year. I’m not going to say warm because it’s never really warm in the UK. I think we can all agree on that. But yeah, there’s a lot of opportunities out there and I’m so excited to be going on some new adventures with people. It’s just, I’m just burst of excitement. I think this year’s going to be really special. Yeah, it’s especially when a group of people are working towards something and they come together and they do that swim. Like you get, there’s this bond that you get

from doing something challenging with other people that you don’t get in other things. So I think back to swim camps I’ve done like I’ve been a part of or swim camps I’ve run. It’s like when you’ve got that blood, sweat and tears with other people, you form that strong friendship. And I find that with people I grew up swimming with it’s like you’ve been through the trenches and that’s a really strong bond that you can form. So I think you’ll have that happen on the trip and it’s something that you don’t obviously get on a solo swim, but with the team it makes it that much more enjoyable. But also, you know, you don’t want to let your teammates down. So you’ve got that accountability to do the training, spend that time in the cold water and make sure that you’re well prepared for the swim. Yeah, exactly. And I think that’s why my program has quite a few people that come back into it is because it’s not just about the swimming.

It’s all the other thing. It’s a community we create together. It’s the new friendships of people they make often from overseas. So I have all your friends with Americans have met through my program and Europeans and it’s all a beautiful mixture of the global swimming community getting to know each other, having these experiences and look, I’m like that as well. You know, I want to have these attempts incredible bonding experiences with other amazing human beings and enjoy the best of what the ocean can offer us. So I guess that’s why I’m so excited is because I can’t wait for these journeys to go and we also have camps that I’m running as in conjunction with getting people ready for this relay happening this year and also the relay happening next year is, as I said, three this year and two next year. So the camps are gonna be exciting and… Where are you doing those? So Mornington Peninsula is the first one coming up

and that’s May 7th this year. That’ll run again next year. And the other one is in Dorset. I’m not sure if you’ve heard of that. That’s south of England, knee isle of white. Yeah, right. And when are you doing that? And what are you doing? It’s in the top. Sorry, that’s June. I don’t have the dates organised yet. But that being announced really soon. And the beautiful thing there is that it’s a geographically significant area. So there’s fossils from the Jurassic period that you can see there on some of the beaches. And there’s beautiful limestone chalk cliffs, like very white cliffs. So, yes, definitely more adventures to be had. Yeah, that’s great.

And I was worried that it was going to be distracting, but you can literally see through the display the metrics are always there, but you have to choose to focus on them. It’s really impressive. And it makes hitting intervals or any kind of specific training much more manageable and achievable. And the goggles track it all. It’s automated. So from the time you start your session to the end of the swim, you don’t have to press any buttons in between. It automatically tracks everything. Form also works with a bunch of the best pro athletes out there, including Lionel Sanders, Sarah Crowley, Hannah Wells and the Olympic champion Usama Malouli to name a few. These form goggles are for all types of swimming too. One pair of goggles and you can use them in the pool, the open water, you can use them in swim spas and endless pools too. So the same pair of goggles can be used in all of these different environments. The battery life is incredible too.

One hour charge is 16 hours of swimming time battery life. And you can have the display on either your right or your left eye. The goggles themselves come with anti-fog solution that’s used in dive masks. So it’s great in terms of quality and there’s a protective case with a nifty drainage solution. So after you swim, you can store them safely. And while the goggles connect to the form swim app on your smartphone too, they will sync with the form app and then you can review all of the details of your swim. And you can see what other swimmers are up to in the form swim community as well. I’m a big fan of these goggles. I was really impressed when I used them and I use them for a vast majority of the sessions that I’m currently doing. To find out more about the form swim goggles, go to formswim.com and you can use our coupon code, effortless at checkout and save $15 off your order. Back to the podcast. And before we jumped on the podcast,

you said, hang on a minute, I’ve got a, I can’t just give me five minutes. I need to, I’ve got some exciting news. So you’ve got like with what you do with the swims

and the camps and everything like PR is a big one in order to do what you do, to fill the camps and everything. Similarly with what I do, it’s like you’ve got that marketing side of it which you need to have. And I think it’s really important and you want to make the most of it. And then the benefit of that too is you get on TV, you get on some of the morning programs and continue to build your profile which is really important as a swimmer. And so you’ve just had a call from a radio station. I’ll let you fill in the rest. Yeah, that this is very true. So I rang you in shock about 30 minutes ago and I was like, oh my God, you would never, like you would never imagine the call I’ve just had. So I was on Fox FM, which is Australian radio network. Yesterday they had a call-in segment where you just call in and it was about things that you can’t live down, like things that you’ve done that you know your friends and family

always bring up and things like that. Anyway, so I rang in, I’ve been on the radio before after my channel swims and they put me on at the end. I was so excited I was coming back on. So we talked, this is where the conversation went. So I thought it’d be about, okay, the fact I swam the channel 44 times but they turned it into, well, they started off with like pooling in the pool and they’re like, you would never have done that. And I’m like, oh, I know that I would admit. We’re still talking pooling right now. And then I go, oh, but you know in the English channel and they’re like, what? Well, you know, you can’t get on the boat. Where are you supposed to go? So they, yeah, they were loving that. Then the conversation just, you turn. One of them, Tommy Little has recently taken up training as in very recently. And he talked about how he can just swim 50 meters and he wanted us to know if he’s officially a swimmer.

So he wanted my opinion on this. And I was like, yeah, if you can like move forward 10, 12 meters, you definitely call yourself a swimmer. And then I was like, you know what, Tommy? You could swim in my England to Belgium relays. So I just threw it out there, just to, you know, plug my England to Belgium relays if I’m super excited about it. And he’s like, oh, maybe I could. And so after a few phone calls, this is only yesterday afternoon. This started 24 hours ago. After a few phone calls, meetings with his producers and team at the network, he’s rung me back this morning. He was like, I’m 100% in. And I’ve told him all the worst stuff. I’m like, what in Celsius yet? He’s like, I understand. And I’m like, you’re gonna have to train three to four times a week. He’s like, yes, I’ve got it. I’m so surprised. Like I’m still in shock. But I’m really excited. So he’s joining the world first team and that is July 5th this year.

That’s the first team to go off and that’s full. There are two other teams that are still open at the moment that people can book into. One starts July 15, one starts July 26. They will probably fill the next four weeks or so. So if anyone is interested, you can jump on my website and there’s lots of information in there or you can send me an email. My website is my name, ChloeMcCuddle.com. And my email is very similar at ChloeMcCuddle.com. And we can have a chat and explore to see if there’s something for you this year or potentially next year. That Aussie really is gonna fill out at 10 and there’s already four people in it. So that’s probably gonna fill out in the next four to five weeks as well. But yeah, if it’s something that interests you, you don’t wanna wait three, four years to swim in the English Channel and you want an amazing adventure. And you wanna party in Belgium because there’s going to be one hell of a party,

I think at the end of each of these swims. Then we’d love to have you on board this crazy journey. Yeah, that’s exciting. Well, we’ll put your email your website in our show notes for anyone listening and get in touch with Chloe if this is something that interests you. And some of the feedback I get from the podcast is a lot of people enjoy where we have marathon swimmers like yourself on because they’re inspired by it. They look at that and go, well, that would be awesome. So if you’ve perhaps thought of doing something that’s a little bit out there, then this is something that counts as being out there. And yeah, it’s exciting that you’ve opened up, I think a new chapter of long distance relay swimming. And it’s good. I really like how when people go outside of the norm and you’ve sort of, I wouldn’t say what you’ve done is the norm doing 44 crossings, but the English Channel’s probably the most well-known long distance swim in the world.

But now you’re sort of venturing out of that and creating your own thing and treading your own path. So it’s exciting and I wish you all the best. And I was thinking earlier, you might get in a decade or two decades time, someone’s coming up through the ranks, they’re ticking off the English crossings. And then we might have you at 60, 70 years of age going, I cannot let them win and you’ll go back and you’ll start, yeah, you’ll keep training and you just won’t stop. So we’re interested to see what happens in the next two, three decades time. Yeah, I might knock out some with an octogenarian. And we’ll be like hardly walking and I’ll be like, are you doing this? I’m trying to cram. I remember, before I really knew about master swim because I coached your PowerPoints for a while there and before I knew about masters, I was probably 15 or 16 years of age. And I remember dad went to a master swim company said, there was a 1500 freestyle

and there was a, I think a lady who was like, in her 80s or 90s who entered the 1500 and it took like an hour and a half or something like that. I remember that’s like, oh dad spoke about when he went to this, there was like masters nationals and he was like, it was impressive. But boy, it took a while, you know, and it took up half the meat. So that’ll be you, but doing English channel crossings.

Yeah, I’ll be like, there’s no time limit. I just need to get to France. Yeah, that’s right. Just drift with the tides and hopefully you’ll get there. And I won’t be with anyone up because I have my private boat, which I’ll own of course, like that. I’ll have my own boat in that world. And I’ll be like, fellas, I’m paying you over time. Just keep the engine running. Yeah, that’s right. So as long as you can stay warm, then you’ll eventually get there. That’s funny. Well, Chloe, thanks so much for being on the podcast and congratulations once again and good luck for the next journey, the next phase of your journey. Thank you so much. And of course, everyone, if you wanna do your stroke correction leading into your England to Belgium relays, renting means what you have. Well, thanks very much. I have quite a few people who’ve worked with you who come and do our clinics and stuff. So I’m sure we’ll have many more to come as well.

And yeah, it’s great working with people who have got several thousand strokes to take as they cross the channel or they’re in a relay because if you can improve one or 2% over the course of 5,000, 10,000 strokes, all of those 1% things really add up. So yeah, appreciate your support and thanks for being on the podcast, Chloe. Okay, until next time. Thanks for listening to the Effortless Swimming podcast. If you’d like us to help you become a faster, more efficient swimmer, go to www.effortlesswimming.com.