I think for me, you know, I definitely want to coach my kids in their character and that’s about actually making a difference in other people’s lives and not living life for yourself. Welcome to the Effortless Swimming Podcast to show that help swimmers and triathletes love the water, become a better swimmer and live a better life. Here’s your host, Brenton Ford. So Dan, welcome to the podcast. We got introduced by Andrew Spoor, who I met probably two years ago, was doing some swimming filming with him and we sort of got introduced through Andrew. So it’s great to have you on the podcast and I think most people have probably seen you swimming before. You’ve been featured in probably the most popular video that we’ve had in the last couple of years, which was you swimming one minute ten, one minute ten hundred in what looks like two minute pace, just a really amazing, amazing swim. So welcome to the podcast.

Yeah, thanks for having us, Brenton. Like it’s super exciting to be on here and you know, if there’s anything I can ever do to add value to people’s lives from my own life, life experiences, then, you know, I’ll always jump at the opportunity. I love what your business is about and your heart noted behind what you do. And you know, if there’s, if I’m here, if there’s anything I can ever do to add value to you or other people’s lives, you know, that’s, that’s what I believe I’m here for on this planet. So like I said, I’m super excited to be here and I look forward to, you know, sharing a bit about my life to other people out there. Well, I think you’ve got one of the most incredible stories that I’ve come across in the swimming world and your background as a young swimmer, you were touted as the next end thought, basically eight national eight gold medals at the National Age Championships, which is, I think, equivalent to what Thorpe had done

and just amazing swimmer from a very young age. And and then over the course of the next few years had gone through through drug addiction and then got yourself cleaned. And now you’re at the point where you’re looking to qualify for the Tokyo Olympics and just an incredible story. And so in terms of where should we start? I think, you know, what was swimming like for you as a youngster? And how did you get to such a high level at such an early age? Yeah, I think for me, you know, I grew up in a pretty functional family. I had a mom and a dad and a younger sister. And my dad was always grew up with boats. So he had a marine dealership. And when I was about five years old, my parents couldn’t keep me out of the water. So they wanted me to get swimming lessons. And before I knew it, I just naturally found my feel for the water and I had such a natural gift and talent for the water. And I naturally progressed really quickly.

Like before I knew it, I was starting to win gold medals at a young age. And for me, at about the age of great ten years old, was obviously the year of school nationals. And my dad was kind of probably like most parents out there. He was probably living his own life out through mine. And I was pushed probably a little bit too hard, too young. And before I knew it, I was at the national championships when I was 10 years old and I worked extremely hard to get there. I was probably doing eight sessions a week at 10 years old and doing gym and having creatine and protein shakes at that age. And I was fortunate enough to win a bronze medal at 10 years old and that’s where my swimming career really started to kick off. Before I knew it, when I was about 13 years old, I moved into Dennis Cotchall’s squad when I was swimming with. I was lucky enough to be able to swim with Grant Hackett and see what it actually took to be one of the best swimmers in the world.

And fortunately for me, I was able to at the national titles when I was 13 years old, I won six gold and two silver. And I also broke Ian Thorpe’s Australian 200 metre freestyle record. So you can imagine what life was like for me at a young age. The following year I won eight gold and two silver at the national titles. And still to today, that’s one of the most gold medals won in history. But for me, I was probably really burnt out in the sport at the age of 14 years old. And I probably didn’t realise that you know, what I was actually experiencing at that age, all the success and accolades that I was experiencing it. It wasn’t actually giving me any fulfilment and satisfaction. It was actually just leaving me empty and pretty broken on the inside. And that’s where I probably started to get involved in binge drinking at the age of 13 years old. I was in that in grade eight. I started binge drinking and partying pretty heavy

whilst also pursuing my swimming career. Is that where you found your fulfilment at that age? Was it through the through the friends or going out and partying and having the enjoyment that way? Is that where you found it or was was that not in your life at that time?

I think it was probably more of an escape for me. Like at the age of five years old, you’ve already formed about 80 per cent of your belief systems. That’s the way you see the world, your world view, the way you process things and your own feelings and emotions. And then by the age of 18, you’ve you’ve already fulfilled the last 20 per cent. So me being the age of 13, 14, I’m starting to process things. And probably I wasn’t coach real well through my own feelings and emotions. And, you know, what actually matters in life. And I started to probably get really empty and lost and broken. And I think for me, binge drunk, binge drinking, partying, girls, that kind of thing was just an escape for me. Hmm. And is there something that you’ve learned over the over that time where if or when you have kids, what would be the the lesson that you’d take from your life and want to pass on to your kids?

I think for me, you know, I definitely want to coach my kids in their character. And that’s about actually making a difference in other people’s lives and not living life for yourself. For me, then I was probably very self-centered and I was all about receiving accolades. And I think I was probably trying to win my parents’ love through achievement, which is a pretty fulfilling way to live. They say if love has to be earned, like medals can be earned. But if love has to be earned, it’s not love. And I think for me, I was trying to win my parents’ love through and the people around me through achievement because I was a very rebellious kid on the other side as well. And I guess for me, what I was doing, I guess I was probably running my life on an oily rag and I started to, you know, really become unfulfilled and unsatisfied. And swimming was probably the only thing I had because I gave so much to it from a young age.

I missed out on a lot of other things. My school life suffered a lot because I was so driven in the swimming world.

And yeah, like I said, at probably the age of 14, I started to become burnt out and I probably stopped giving it as much as what I could and probably relied purely on talent and not actually on, you know, taking my training to another level. And talent probably got me through the next four years of my swimming career. But I never was actually able to achieve my full potential.

And so do you feel like the the amount of sessions that you’re doing at a young age is primarily what led to the burnout? Or was it the the need to get that recognition through your swimming achievements that added to the pressure of it? Yeah, I think it was a mixture of both. Like I was like I said, I was pushed really young, pushed too far when I was really young. I probably would have liked to progress where I was at about 12, 13 years old at about 15, which would have given me a little bit more time to prepare for the pressure and have the bit more character and actually understand the reason why I swim. But like I said, I was I was burnt out at that age. And I probably didn’t realize that swimming, you know, you can you can be one of the best swimmers in the world. And like, I don’t know, swimming didn’t redeem my life. It didn’t take my problems away. If that makes sense, I still had the same internal issues that I had.

And for me, no matter what I did or tried, you know, I was always left feeling unfulfilled.

And we’ll come back to sort of what that that binge drinking and everything eventually led to. But in terms of your character development over the last, say, six, seven years, where’s that? Where’s that come come from? Who have you learned it from? And what are some of those things that you feel like has made you a different person now? My faith has obviously played a massive role in my life now. You know, the Bible believing Christian and I actually get most of my character and moral values out of out of the Bible, but also have great people in my life who love and care about me for my for who I am, not what I do. And that’s actually helped me to become a better person. I think too often, you know, our past mistakes and, you know, stuff that we’ve experienced to find our future. And for me, I’ve had to learn that I’m not defined by what I used to be or what I should be. I’m actually defiled by the person I’m becoming.

So that’s actually helped me focus more on me as a person and help allow the pressure of sport and me not achieving what I want to achieve, actually produce something in me that is far greater than probably what a result will ever give me. Hmm. And how did it has it been over the last six or seven years? Has it been a do you feel like you’re on this steady growth of of developing your character and do you feel like it’s become a lot clearer about where you want to go, what kind of person you want to be, or was there a moment where it just all sort of changed for you? I think I went I was fortunate enough to go to the 2016 Rio Olympics. And I guess even after experiencing the stuff that I’ve experienced. So that was when I came out of rehab and we can talk about that in a moment. You know, I probably came back out of rehab and there was still me wrapping my identity up in swimming. And so I guess for me, I was probably achieving

like achieve results really quickly when I got out of rehab and I’d had five years, four and a half years out of the water. And I guess for me, the results, like I said, never took away my own personal issues and swimming probably came more of a driver for me than my own personal well-being. And I actually went to the Olympic Games, you know,

with the hope of winning an Olympic medal. Like I was in the four by 200 meter freestyle relay. And, you know, for me going to the Olympic Games, all the other boys, I’ve only just started talking about this because it actually took me a long time to recover from the Olympics. But all the other boys in the relay team, they swam out of their skin in the final. They swum really well times, really good times. And I was unfortunately two seconds off my best time or what I was projected to swim in that relay team. And we were only we got fourth place and we were only one second off the silver. And for me, my I felt like my whole world had fallen apart. So that’s to be honest, I felt like the biggest failure ever. And when I got interviewed by the media on national or worldwide TV, they interviewed the other boys. And when they got to me, they asked me what happened. And I guess for me, I just felt pretty embarrassed and ashamed.

And for me, I’ve had to really work a lot on my identity. A lot changed for me in high performance sport. After that, I probably started to get treated differently

in the high performance world. And for me, I’ve had to spend a lot of time rebuilding my identity so I can hopefully be what I am in a lot healthier place going into the Olympics this year. And how long did it? Is it only now where you feel like you’ve been able to to look back at it and and not sort of wrap yourself up in those emotions of, as you said, sort of shame and all of that was it? Because I imagine that’d be a pretty long process and a really hard thing to to deal with, especially when you let yourself down in an individual swim. That’s one thing. And then a relay, as you know, especially with swimming relays, it’s you really feel the pressure from from everyone else. And you probably felt that from the whole swimming, swimming community.

Yeah, I think for me, after that, I probably tried to vary those feelings more and become more driven in the sport. So when I came back from Olympics, I was so afraid of that happening again that I just went back and trained even harder to be honest. And that that’s like you’re running on an oily rag, you know, like I’m swimming out of a pretty unhealthy place. And then before I knew it, I started to actually my swimming started to go more downhill because I guess I was running away from what was actually going on. And before I knew it, I was so far from where I wanted to be. I probably actually had to take a hard look at myself and really start to admit the way that I was feeling. And that took a probably a lot of good people in my life that I was able to be transparent with and open with. And before I knew it, I guess I started to see the light at the end of the tunnel and my swimming’s probably taken a turn in the last six months.

And I’ve really started to, you know, swim out of a lot healthier place and not have so much expectation and pressure on me and actually come back to the reason why I swim like I love the sport. I love what it’s produced in me. I love what it’s given me. It’s and I also love that, you know, through influence and, you know, being able to be successful in the sport that you’re able to actually make a difference in other people’s lives. So, you know, I feel like in the last six months, my perspective of the sport and in the sport has changed a lot. Yeah. And it’s really good to hear that. And, you know, we’ve spoken a bit over the last few months since we first met. And one of the things you mentioned was your coach, Paul, I think. I don’t know if he came up to you to swim meet and basically it sounds like he took you under his wing and said, look, this is what I think. I think you might need to do to get to where you want to go.

And over the course of maybe 12 months or so, you guys have been working together. And it seems like that’s a really good coach athlete relationship that you’ve got going there. Yeah, it definitely has. He actually coached me when I was in rehab. So it’s been a bit of a happy ending. He’s probably coached me towards the end of my career, which is cool. And he’s been a great coach. He’s always coach younger swimmers in he used to be in Harvey Bay. So he’s always coach younger swimmers and help them get good. And then if they do get good, then they move to Brisbane because that’s how, you know, the culture rolls. So he’s was very good at not having his own ego or the way he is wrapped up in performance. So he actually allowed me to not race for a period of time whilst him and I spent a lot of time rebuilding my identity and allowing me to just be uncomfortable for a little bit and not race. And that that process, he has helped me with my technique

and my the way that I swim and my approach to swimming. And, you know, him and I are both pretty excited for hopefully what this year can possibly bring. Yeah, it’s one of the funny things that you said to me when maybe the first time that we met was you’re talking about a few years ago, you said you said you had no catch. And I think it’s all it’s all relative. Like you look at look at you something and you’ve got an amazing stroke. But when you started to rebuild your stroke and I get I think it really became as a student of technique. You you’re looking at some of the things you could work on. And you felt like your your catch and what was happening out in front of you was something that you could could really work on. Can you talk a bit about what it was that you that you saw in your stroke and what sort of Paul helped you change and look at and how you’ve you’ve gone about changing your stroke now and having that as a big focus of getting to hopefully getting

to to where you want to get to over the next couple of months. Yeah, I think it’s like I probably always underestimate underestimated the power of technique. I came from a really high aerobic based program with Dennis Cottrell and I moved to another program, which is another high performance program. This was before I moved to Paul and he has more of a different approach, which is more of a quality based program and more slow swimming. And I remember Paul said to me once, my coach, now if you can’t swim slow, you can’t swim fast. And when I moved to this, the coach that I was with before, Paul in between Dennis, he I guess he was probably more of a trainer kind of coach. And I was never really sure on how to swim slow. So I guess I started swimming slow with really bad technique. And like I could still hold decent times in training, but I guess when I go to race day, my stroke would never feel like it used to.

And I think because I had such a high aerobic based program swimming with Dennis that it always forced me to rhythm, which would force you out of bad habits. And so I developed over the space of two years some really bad habits. And then when Paul obviously I wasn’t getting the results I wanted, Paul started to give me a little bit of technique work. And I started to drop a bit of time. I went from about a 148 down to a 147 for in the 200 freestyle and which was cool. And then I obviously moved over to Paul and he started to teach me more about technique. And when I swam the 147 for he gave me a three out of 10 for my skill level.

So that was kind of a little bit eye opening. And he started to teach me technique. And in that process, we’ve had a few other coaches come along and help us. And then we had we had you come along and help us and you had a dip. We had fresh eyes on my technique. And we’ve literally had to start again. I remember I was swimming OK at the start of last year. I mean, and I went to New South Wales States and I knew that my stroke wasn’t right. And then I moved into a quality based program and I was working way too hard for the times that I was pushing. And then Paul and I, that was just before World Champs. And it was I was honestly like I probably wasn’t

handling the pressure of trying to get a stroke change really well. And I was coming out a little bit sideways in training and Paul goes, well, let’s just pull out.

Let’s just stop. And that was hard for me because I was always been so result driven as we’re talking about before. And that’s when I guess I started to probably deal more with my identity stuff. And then that allowed me to work more on my technique and start again from scratch. We literally went from like being pretty fit,

probably like being pretty fit to doing skull.

And that’s where we started. You know, I literally started doing skull at the start of last year. And I had to fully rebuild my stroke. And it was honestly the most frustrating process I’ve probably ever felt. I’m sure you get that a lot from your, you know, your viewers and the people that get coached by you and the people on YouTube as well. Like it was honestly the most frustrating process, but I was just so thankful that I had a coach that could coach me through that frustration. And we came out the other side and I’m starting to swim a bit nice now, which is pretty nice. Well, it’s it’s good looking at like you show me some of those videos from maybe a year or two ago when you’re swimming to what you look like now. And it’s like it’s a really noticeable difference. And I want to talk about it would be good to go into a bit more detail about that that frustration that you felt, because I mean, we work with mostly

triathletes and open water swimmers, adults who might be around the two minute mark. Some are a bit slower, a bit faster. But that’s generally where the average sort of swimmer is. And I’ve often had people say to me, they feel like they’re pretty close to to their limit of what they can get to with their swim speed. And I think you’re a great example of that. Where, you know, if you’re swimming 147 and you’re at the very top, top end of athletes like and you can find improvements in your stroke and you know, you can get faster than someone who’s swimming two minutes. There is so much more opportunity to to get quicker. But get going through that frustration of changing your stroke and having it not feel good and having to put up with a few weeks or a few months of maybe slower swimming is a it’s a hard thing to do. And I completely understand that. And so for someone at your level to feel like you’re going back to square one,

what, how long was that process for you until it actually started to feel better and those habits started to to stick? And can you talk about like the timeline there? Because I think it’d be interesting to to hear that for someone who swam at such a high level for for so long. What was it like for you? Yeah, I think like for me, obviously, I’ve trained with a lot of

high level swimmers and probably one of the most technically sound swimmers I’ve ever seen was Emma McKinnon. And I guess like most swimmers know her and she was actually helping me a lot with my technique at one stage. And she is probably one of the most technically sound swimmers I’ve ever seen. And I remember she was telling me some of the cues. It’s pretty funny. I was only thinking about this the other day. She was telling me some of the cues that she uses to swim. And so then I would go back to training and try the cues because I wasn’t training with her. I’d go back to training and try some of the cues that she was telling me. And I probably wasn’t at that stage of my swimming yet, which I probably feel like. And then I’d go on YouTube and watch Alex pop off swim, which is another really technically sound swimmer. And then I’d try to swim the way that they would swim. And so I guess I probably wasn’t up to that stage yet on my swimming.

So I guess that’s a bit of a detriment for me. That probably made my process more frustrating because I was probably trying to do what they were doing. So if I look back on it now, I probably should have just stuck to the process I was at. So probably process at the start was just swimming a lot with a snorkel and not being able to breathe because breathing stops most swimmers up.

And so I had to start from like doing skull with the breathing. I did so much swimming with a snorkel that I actually forgot to breathe when I was breathing, which was another part of learning how to swim as well. He’s learning to breathe and adding breathing into the stroke. So we did a lot of drill work. Most of our warmups, even still to today, consist of a lot of drill work, which is a lot of single arm work with the snorkel, a lot of catch position kick and building a lot of a lot more strength into my core. And I guess I I’m starting to probably be able to apply the cues that say Emma was using now to my swimming because I’ve built a lot of foundation in my swimming. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah, like you were, yeah. I was probably too premature to be to probably be aiming to their level. If that makes sense. So I look back on it now. I should have just probably stayed like this one day I came to training

and I was trying to swim like pop off and Paul’s like, Mike, what the what the hell are you doing? And he’s like, just stop doing that. Like, I’m pretty sure he made me get out and stop doing that because I was like, yeah, it was funny. I remember that pop off DVD because I think my dad bought it when or whatever it came out. I was probably 12 or 13 at the time and I did exactly the same thing. I watched that video and thought, all right, that’s how I’ve got to swim. And I did a 25 sprint and I think I got like an 11, eight or 11, nine, which was the best I ever did. And I was never able to replicate that. And and that pop off stroke was just that’s not the style that I should swim with. And like your strokes, more of that loping free starts much more like a felt sort of stroke and pop off stroke is much more even, much more balanced. And so it’s a very different stroke as well. So I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall watching Paul watch you swim.

It was pretty funny. Yeah. So now like now, like I’ve now I can hone in more on my strokes. So we’re building a lot more power through the back end of my stroke, which gives you more time at the front end of the stroke to catch the water. But if I was probably trying to do that side of the stroke to premature and I guess that probably made my process

delayed and I remember I watched this video once on a backwards bicycle and it was a grown man trying to ride a backwards bicycle. So if you turn left, the wheel goes right. And it took him like over six to nine months to learn to ride this bicycle. And he said to his son that was like, say, he was about 10 years old. He said, I’ll take you to Australia. He was American, I’ll take you to Australia if you can ride this bike. And the kid learned it in like two weeks. So like, I think like the older you are and probably the more you swarm, like you’ve got to just be a little bit more patient in unlearning bad habits so you can relearn new habits, if that makes sense. Yeah, I think that’s very true. And what are some of those cues that Emma gave you? I’m curious as to what she said they were, because I find cues can be some of the best things to change a stroke, because with the right cue, it just it keeps it really simple.

It gives you a good mantra to repeat in your head. And with the right cue, like you can just really focus on the big rock. So things that will make the biggest difference. Yeah, she used to like, she’s got more of a sprint timing stroke, which is a bit more like pop off. And so she has a lot more flat hips. So she would feel like she’s connecting her right hip to her left arm. But also like, she would actually feel like if you were to stand up and rotate your shoulders with your hips, like she would feel that feeling in the water, like the opposite hip, opposite shoulder to opposite hip, like that actual timing in the water.

And she would also feel like that she is not putting much water on her face when her head’s down, which would obviously reduce drag on your head position as well. And that’s what that’s what worked for her. And what about you? Have you got any cues that that you use for your type of stroke?

Mine is more at the moment, probably building power through the back end of my stroke. So that’s actually feeling like I’m actually propelling forward through the back end of my stroke. And obviously, the more you can relax the recovery, especially because I got more of a low stroke. So I’ve got to relax my right arm recovery more. It actually gives you more time to set up in the front of the stroke, which is the catch. So that’s probably my my cues at the moment. And when I know, maybe whatever it was, six months ago or so,

one of the things that you did work on changing was your was your entry, getting that the hand to enter earlier, because it was overreaching above the water. And then the other one was with your left arm that was coming out quite wide through the catch phase. And both of those things when I think I came and filmed you maybe a month ago,

like they look really, really good and really solid changes. And like, I was I was really, I was really surprised at how much you were able to change in those couple of months from when we did the first to the second filming. And I think it’s a real testament to how much focus you’ve put on it. And like it just looked it just looked really, really good. And I know there’s still there’s little changes that you’re still making there. But it just looks so much better. And like for you, what like how much of your your training are you thinking about your technique? Is it constant? Are you always thinking about it? Or is there times when you do just you just sort of let the let that go and you’re focused on the pacing and and the feeling of just getting the rating up?

It’s probably like I still focus on it a lot, especially in the warm up. But I think the biggest thing for me was accepting that I had to go backwards to go forwards and also getting rid of the clock. So I trusted that by building technique, building the good foundational of technique and obviously getting my reasoning behind why I’m swimming healthier, that the time would come. And that’s honestly what’s happened now. So in my training, I’m swimming a lot faster than what I used to. And it’s a lot smoother than what I used to. And that’s because the clock doesn’t control me anymore. Does that make sense? Oh, yeah. Yeah. So I’ve had to literally not worry about the clock. Like some days you might get in and do a pace 50 and you swim 25, five. But then another day you might get in and go 24, eight or something. But it’s the same the same effort. And that used to really rattle me, you know, before where now I’m

learned to just be like, no, as long as I’m focusing on technique and building technique and getting the good feel for the water that the time on race day and the time in training will look after itself. So that’s probably helped me a lot with my swimming now. Does that if that makes sense? Yeah, one of the things that I used to I used to I used to be a really good trainer and I’d try and like the training was really my race. I would try and do the best I could every single session and push it as hard as I could. And I was speaking to actually Harriet Brown about this on the podcast. And she said a very similar thing when she was growing up. She would try and she would basically be going hard every session. And you don’t you’re just basically hitting the same sort of level of training every single time. But what she’s learned to do now is she might have I think she does like 12 sessions a week of the different sports.

And she has two or three that she’s got in mind that she’s going to really push it. But the rest she’s going to actually hold back. She’s going to let some of those other girls that she’s training with. She doesn’t mind if they get ahead because it’s not about who wins that training session. It’s all about if you just follow the process and you stick to those right training zones, the end result will be you’ll race well. And that’s that is what you want as the end result. It’s not about the training session. And then they say for me, that’s something that I’ve had to learn over time. And especially now where you might be injured or tired or haven’t had a great great sleep like I’ll still try and go to the pool and train. But the clock, I’m not worried about that. I know if I just do the distance, do the set, focus on my stroke, that end result will be I will race well.

Yeah, I think too, like also being really stick about the bad days. Like I think sometimes is, you know, a high performance or an athlete or anyone trying to achieve their goal, like you either rate your good days at 10 and your bad days are one. And I think for me, you know, I’ve learnt to rate say my bad day is a seven.

It probably actually is a seven, but it’s easy to say it was a one. Yeah. So that actually helps me understand. All right. Well, why was it a seven? Was it because I didn’t sleep well last night? Is it because of my personal life? Is it because of, you know, I wasn’t as focused in training? So how do I get my sevens to an eight? You know what I mean? So being a little bit more realistic on your own expectations, otherwise you you rob yourself of joy. My bad days were either a one or my good days were either a 10 and I had no in between. So it also robbed me a lot of joy and I didn’t actually get to enjoy the process of becoming something in the water and out of the water. If that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And is there something that you are you keeping a log book? You’re tracking your trainings there? A way that you are able to reflect on on the different sessions? Is there a way that you’re sort of doing that manually?

Or it’s just something that you think about each time? There’s probably more something I think about. I think like I said to you before, I probably had like a real perfectionist mentality. I was always logging everything I did. I’ve got log books in my room from years and years of swimming. And so for me, it was probably me trusting that I’m at training to give my all and my coaches, my coach now, he writes the sessions and he keeps track of it. And he knows that like that I’m obviously, I always show up and give my all and for me, I don’t need a log how I’m going. I just trust that what I’m doing is enough. But that’s what’s working for me at the moment. And I think that’s that’s good. Like as a as an athlete, it can be good to just like if you look at a lot of say on a professional tennis plays or whatever it might be, like there’s a lot of commitments that can go with the sport, whether it can be sponsor events that you need to do, media stuff.

Like all of that can be a big distraction from the from the actual training. So the more simple you can make it, if you can, if you just trust the process, you trust what your coach is doing. And you can just show up, train, do your thing. Then then that can make it so much simpler. And I think like the the economy Gregor fight last week or two weeks ago was he he didn’t really do any of the media that he had done in the past. And he focused just on training. And the end result was that he he had an amazing fight. And it’s just getting rid of those distractions and just focusing on the on the most important thing, which is is that training. So has it has it been different in the past where you’ve where you felt like there’s been a lot of distractions around your training?

Yeah, I think my probably biggest thing was probably the lies that I was believing to why I was swimming. I think like, you know, I realistically like I’ve got I’ve got nothing to prove. I always thought I had to prove myself, prove that I was a good person, you know, prove that I was lovable or prove, you know, that kind of stuff. So once I probably detached myself from those things like swimming, it’s pretty hard to get distracted, you know, because I have so much like I swim because I love it. You know, it’s it doesn’t really feel like work as much for me at the moment because I do love the sport. And for me, I’m constantly trying to add value to other people’s lives. So, you know, my life in my swimming is self-centered as swimming can be. I’m trying to have a bit more of a different approach by adding value to people’s lives, and it’s almost like you’re a kid again when you’re at the training, a training when you’re young

and you’re training and you’re dropping time, but there’s no tomorrow. You know, like that’s kind of my approach with the sport now. And hopefully I can start to bring back that mentality in high performance sport and hopefully, you know, people can start to actually be fulfilled and satisfied in their own achievements and not be so, you know, disappointed or hurt from their own individual career in high performance. And I’ve seen you’ve been speaking to some different groups just about your story and where you’re at now. What is it that you like most about doing that? And what do you see yourself doing in the next five, 10 years? What sort of area or what sort of thing do you reckon appeals to you? I actually really enjoy swimming. I would like to have a bit more of an impact in high performance culture, maybe with the well-being of athletes. A lot of people get missed in high performance sports. So hopefully I can explore a bit of that.

I also really love teaching, swimming, so maybe swim schools. I really enjoy and I guess for me

is sharing hope to our society, you know, and also that, you know, sometimes people can live a life way less than what they’re actually worth. Like their life is worth a lot less than what it actually is. So I think it’s about sharing that people’s lives matter, that there’s something inside of people that nobody else can do. And it’s also helping add value to other people’s dreams and visions that they have for their own lives. So I feel like that that’s probably an area that I want to go down as well. Yeah, and I think that it couldn’t come from a better person. So it’s been really enjoyable for me to be able to see your progress since we first met and just being able to film that progress as well. And we’re going to catch up in about a month’s time as well, and we’ll do some more filming. And I’m just really excited to watch you race over the next couple of months as you lead up to Olympic trials and just seeing how you go.

Because last time we caught up, you looked like a different swimmer. Like you’ve you’ve leaned up a lot. Obviously been doing a lot of training, strokes improving. And it’s just it’s just awesome to watch that process play out and and having met Paul as well, just a really great person and and very knowledgeable coach as well. So it’s myself and probably a lot of the people listening as well will be watching with with keen interest because, you know, I think everyone will be rooting for you. Yeah, thanks. And hopefully we can continue to help, you know, other people achieve their dreams and maybe we can get back on the podcast again another couple of months. And, you know, if any people have questions or whatever, we can help answer them and help add value to their swimming and their and their lives. Thanks for having me. Yeah, my pleasure. Thank you. And if anyone who is is listening, what’s the best place to to follow your your progress?

Is it Instagram or Facebook? What’s the actually not on social media at the moment? But yeah, I think like, you know, hopefully I can just be a bit more of an undog for a while and, you know, people, you know, whether they want to get in touch through email or whatever. But I’m sure if the people want to need to get in touch with me, they can get in touch through you or my email, which is Dan dot Smith dot twenty eight at live dot com dot are you and I always do my best to reply to everyone. Awesome. Thanks again, mate. I’ve enjoyed having you on the podcast and I’ll see you in a couple of weeks time. Thanks, brother. I’ll just stop the recording. Thanks for listening to the Effortless Swimming podcast. If you’d like us to help you become a faster, more efficient swimmer, go to www.effortlesswimming.com.