Welcome to episode number one, one, three of the Effortless Swim podcast. If you ever wondered how you should fuel for a marathon swim, then this podcast is for you. My guest today is Tara Diverse who has experience in long distance swimming herself. She’s on the English Channel and the Rotness Channel and a number of other long distance swims. And she works very closely with a handful of people every year to help them lead into their marathon swim. She has a lot of people who are doing the English Channel, the Catalina swim and a number of other long distance swims. And she works with people long term. So at least seven, eight, nine months out from their swim. She works with them to help them get their feeding and fueling right on the day. But more than that is look at the different approaches that, well the approach that’s going to work best for them because there’s a lot of variations and things to take

into account depending on body composition levels, experience, weight, height, age. There’s a lot that goes into it and Tara’s got experience working with a hundred plus different people over the last couple of years. And with this as well, she looks at swimmers having the right amount of muscle mass and been at the right levels of fat as well. And she sort of talks about how you can do this without putting on the channel ten kilos that a lot of people are recommended to do. So she looks at doing this in a way to keep the person as healthy as possible as they can while they start to add on extra fat and extra muscle mass as well. So she takes the approach of it’s better to keep someone healthy than just add on extra weight for the sake of it. So I really like the way she approaches this. Now before we get into the podcast, I just want to talk about a product that I’ve found very useful and I don’t have sponsors of the podcast,

but I did have someone who came to one of my freestyle clinics in Melbourne and he’s the distributor for a product called SwimSeal in Australia. And SwimSeal is basically a way to prevent water getting caught in your ear canal or in your ear. So it creates a waterproof barrier in the ear canal and it can be a way to stop you from having to use BlueTac or ear plugs to stop water getting in. So it’s a unique formulation that contains Australian tea tree oil that’s applied before you get in the water. And it can help prevent the discomfort that comes from getting ear infections due to water getting trapped in the ear. And it leaves the ear naturally as well. So it kind of wears off over a period of about four hours. And so it should just be reapplied as needed. But I found this a really useful product that doesn’t contain any alcohol either. So you’re not putting alcohol in your ears. And it’s available at SwimSeal.com.au

and available at a lot of pharmacies around the country as well. So as I said, they’re not a sponsor of the podcast. They haven’t been paid to do this. But it’s just a product that I found very useful and can apply to a lot of adults especially. Because I know over the last 12 months or so, my ears have gotten pretty bad. Well, I’ve never had an issue with water getting caught in them. But now I’m just getting old. And it’s starting to happen a lot more. So check out SwimSeal and just Google at SwimSeal.com.au. And it’s a good way to help prevent that happening. Welcome to the Effortless Swimming Podcast, the show that helps swimmers and triathletes love the water, become a better swimmer and live a better life. Here’s your host, Brenton Ford. Tara, welcome to the Effortless Swimming Podcast. Thanks for joining me. Before we start, we’ll just say it up front that you’ve got no more room for any more clients.

Not this year, 2019. But no more for 2018, I’m jam-packed. So you’ve become a bit of a go-to person for help with feeding plans when it comes to long-distance swimming. And you’ve got clients who are doing the English Channel, who have done Rotnest, Catalina, a lot of long-distance swimming. So how’d that come about? So your background’s swimming, but also you’re a dietitian. Yeah, so I’m an advanced sports dietitian. And when I was training for the English Channel in 2012, I was also an academic at Sydney Uni. And they kept pushing me to do some research. And I was like, oh, I don’t know what I wanna do. And then I thought, well, what if I just do some research in English Channel swimming? Because it was something that I wanted to do anyway. So I started doing some research into English Channel swimming from 2012 when I swam the channel and then kept going and did a few more studies right to 2014. So that’s how I got interested in it.

And I think it starts out with just, I was working with a lot of my mates. And when I got out of nutrition, like general nutrition and got into doing other work that I do now, it was something that I just really kept enjoying doing. So now I still work with lots of channel, mostly channel swimmers and marathon swimmers, not really the short swimmers as much. And with that, I mean, with your experience over the last couple of years in working with a lot of different swimmers, what are some of the things that you need to take into account when you’re working with a lot of different people and they’ve obviously got different feeding plans. So what are those things that you sort of look at and ask questions about? So a couple of things that are really important. I think when you’re looking at training for any big swim, there’s a lot of noise. So every time one, if a person makes it across the channel, whether it be Rotnest or the English channel or whatever,

they seem to become the expert. And the trouble here is that they’re the expert for themselves. So what I found when I swam the channel, I had worked at, I did this bit of a research study where I analyzed body composition by using photographic somatotyping of a whole bunch of different channel swimmers. And then working out about how much weight I had to put on. And when I got closer to swimming the channel, I had a whole bunch of people who were telling me, you know, you need to put on a bit more weight. And the whole time I kind of thought to myself when I was swimming the channel, I put on an extra three kilos. And you know what? I didn’t feel cold when I swam, but I could feel the back fat when I was swimming. And the whole time I kind of thought, Tara, you need to, you know, plan with your head, execute with your heart rather than the other way around. So the first thing that I look at is, you know, what have they been doing previously?

A lot of people who are looking at doing these swims have done something. We need to look at how quickly they’re going. If you’re a Trent Grimsy going for a world record or if you’re a fast person, there’s a whole lot of different strategies we’ll use for you. Versus if you’re just going, you know, you do any channel swim just to make it. But if you’re a fast swimmer versus a slower swimmer, if you’re naturally lean versus naturally big where you store your weight. So some people store a lot of their weight around their hips and bum. But you know, to keep warm, we need it around our chest and back areas. Stroke style. So people who have a hip driven stroke versus a shoulder driven stroke tend to digest foods very differently and absorb nutrients differently. So we have different nutrition for them. People who are good with the cold versus who aren’t good with the cold. So it’s all, and it’s all different things like that

that we take into account. So I tend to get photos like if you looked at my computer, sometimes I think, gosh, I hope I’m not rated because I’ve got all these pictures of people and their dogs, you know, with their forward and back and videos of them swimming. And they always ask, why do you need a video? Because it tells me a lot about how you absorb your food. So these are some of the things that I look into. And then how long you’re going to be swimming for because that’s really important as well, obviously. What are some of the changes in how they digest food with different types of freestyle with their different strokes? Yeah, different types. So, and this kind of tends to be, you know, we tend to change this a little bit, but sometimes, so there’s three different things that we need to take into account for nutrition. And when you’re running, usually it’s actually this four. And one I kind of, you know, don’t really,

a lot of my simmers will be like, I don’t like this. And I’m like, well, you know, it’s not a floating buffet. It’s nutrition for performance. But besides taste, which is with the one that most people work on, the three other areas, how you can eat the food, like whether the food is ingestible. So, you know, when you’re running or cycling, you can have a whole bunch of different types of foods. But when you’re swimming, it’s a little bit more difficult. Then we’re looking at how you can digest the food and different people digest that differently. And the last one is what foods absorbed. So when you look at a lot of the sports nutrition research, because it’s difficult to do in simmers, all of that endurance research is done in runners or cyclists. And food just acts very, very differently depending on where your position is. So if people are faster, they have a faster stroke rate and they’re thinner, we tend to try and put them on a higher carbohydrate

and more quick acting carbohydrates. They’re more likely to get a bit cold. I can talk a bit about the body composition in a tick. And then the slower people are, the fatter people are with the slower stroke rate, more hip driven. We can almost get them on a high, high fat kind of lower carb diet. So they’re kind of the two extremes. And then, but what tends to happen is people aren’t always 100% one style, like they may be lean and slow and have a slow stroke rate. So then we just have to monitor how we’re gonna use these different types of fuels as well. And in terms of sort of fat versus muscle, you talked about the scan that you like to do for that. What, can you go into a bit more detail about what that scan is and… Yeah, so we, there’s two things that we look at. So I’ll get some of my Summers if it’s super important to do a DEXA scan. And when we did our research, we did 40 channel Summers and did their DEXA scan.

The really interesting thing that we found from this that hadn’t really been found before was that there’s a big difference between thermal regulation and cold tolerance. And cause what we did in this, probably I should talk about that study a bit more. So we did a DEXA scan. We got people to do that eight hours swim in about 14 to 15 degree water and they had a temperature sensor in and then every hour we checked their temperature, we recorded how much food they were having and recorded their symptoms and speed and distance and all of that type of stuff. And it was really interesting because some people who were fat, so they had high body fat, they didn’t feel cold but their core temperature may have been cold. And then for other people who were higher muscle mass or sometimes were a bit leaner, they actually had okay core temperature but they were feeling cold. So this was something that was really interesting to me

because it was around the difference between that thermal regulation and cold tolerance and that they’re two separate things that we need to work on and we can work on both of those using nutrition.

And what about, I mean, is it, is the main thing to keep the core temperature up? Is that the most important thing? Not so much, whether you feel cold or… Yeah, that’s the main thing but try telling that to someone who’s shivering. Yeah, that’s right. If they’re shivering their core temperature is probably low as well. But just having some awareness around that is really important but that has allowed us to make a few changes in how we feed our swimmers as well. So and how we have that we get them. So I’m finding now that if we, because in previous years we used to feed people longer and even a lot of swimmers from England, they’ll do an hour or sometimes two hours before their first feed. And with some of our, like we can keep people leaner if we can feed them faster acting carbohydrates. A lot of, even if something’s like a fast acting, quick acting carbohydrate, while, you know, usually while you’re sitting down

it acts very differently when you’re swimming because it’s still digested quite slowly because you don’t lose as much fluid. They’re more concentrated. So it actually acts sometime like a slower acting carbohydrate. But if you have that more frequently, then you can keep your core temperature up rather than having to have a slow acting carbohydrate and having it, you know, infrequently. So that was the thing that we kind of found which was being really good because again, you know, we don’t worry about how quickly you can swim a channel but you know, I’ve been in the English channel and I can tell you right now that I wouldn’t want to be in there for any longer than I had to be. And, you know, if we can get people across quicker like Lena, for example, you know, when I swam, if I was three kilos, Lena, the likelihood is that I could have gone a little bit quicker. So for some of our swimmers, it’s can we get them across, you know,

more quickly, safer without having to put on so much weight that, you know, they end up with some type of chronic disease because, you know, this thing, like the English channel is such a huge achievement but to me it’s not worth risking your health for. So looking at, you know, the type of dietary pattern that suits you and the type of dietary pattern that suits you but also the type of what’s it called, like how fat you need to get as well is super important. Yeah, there’s a lot that goes into it and I guess, you know, you work with people for at least nine months in the lead into their swim. So it’s really just, and it’s gonna take that amount of time to figure out how much muscle, how much fat they need to put on and the best way to go about it. And you see, if you look at Chloe McCartle when she did a triple, I mean, she didn’t have a whole lot of excess fat on her when she did that. And I guess she’s really just got that dialed in

because she’s done it so much and she knows what her body can handle. And that’s what we, sorry, one thing on that is that we found that with the SAMA regulation, the biggest predictor was experience in cold water and experience being hypothermic. So I kind of encourage my guys to sometimes, like we take them on a bit of a cycle. Sometimes we under fuel them because this recovery stuff, like I don’t know, you sound probably the same ages as I am, but when we grew up as kids training in the pool, recovery was pumped, pumped, pumped, pumped, pumped into us. But now, if we’re too busy recovering our muscles, you’re not gonna get the same adaptations and it’s the same for cold water swimming. So sometimes I’ll get my swimmers to go into cold water being inadequately fueled and they hate it and it’s not gonna be fun, but I just keep reminding them, if it’s shit, you’re gonna feel better when you’re swimming the channel

and you’re like, hey, it’s not so bad. Remember that time Tara made me swim for four hours in 15 degrees without any food.

So you said that experience is the biggest factor there and do you say getting hypothermic? So actually going into hypothermia or getting close to that? Yeah, and doing it safely, like doing it in a time where you know, like getting in a cold bath, not being fueled or going for a swim, not being fueled that you can get out and you can recover quickly. So not getting into too low core temperature because obviously that’s not safe and not doing it by yourself. But a time when you’re going with a support crew and you can actually get out, you can get warm, that’s gonna improve your cold water tolerance. Oh, that’s interesting. Yeah, so how long does it take to adapt to that? Is it… It’s doesn’t, like there’s no kind of scientific and this is the part that issue with kind of channel swimming in sports science and in nutrition is that there’s not a lot of research about it and it’s so different because like if you’re comparing

a whole bunch of cyclists or whoever, there, you can kind of group a group of people and go, these people are about the same speed and about the same fitness and blah, blah, blah and you can put them in a group. Channel swimmers are so diverse. So one of the biggest problems I think is that people will look at other people and see what they’re doing and they’ll take that as right for them. So for example, last year I had a swimmer and he met up with some other channel swimmers who had made the swim and they were telling him about a completely different feeding plan than what he was on. And the thing is this guy was in his 30s, he was tall, he was thin, naturally put on a little bit of weight obviously for the channel and he was fast, really fast. He was gonna do under 10 hours around that time. Now he went down and he talked to this lady and I said, well, you know, what makes you think that, you know, that’s the right eating plan for you?

I said, you know, you can follow whatever you like, that’s fine. And he was like, well, you know, it’s just that she’s kind of done it already. And I was like, yeah, but she’s, you know, nearly double your age. She’s definitely double your weight and she swam 16 and a half hours. So it’s a really, really different type of person to you. So in most cases, if you wanna swim the channel and you look at someone and they’re the same as you, like, you know, for me, I’m mid 30s, same weight, same speed, same stroke style, all of those types of things. Maybe that nutrition will work for you. But for others, you kind of just can’t, you know,

it is trial and error. That’s the biggest thing, you know, like there is obviously science to it and I make things very complex and some people don’t like them as complex as I make it. But, you know, for some people, you’re fine on trial and error, but just watch, you know, where you’re getting the information from and making sure that it’s someone who’s a little bit like you at least. Yeah, I say that a lot with technique. People either will watch, well, even watching the YouTube videos that I make and also just seeing posts on Instagram from different people and different coaches, like it’s, there’s no one right way for everyone. And people will sort of see this stuff and they’ll read it like, all right, as a triathlon coach, my… I don’t want you seeing me swim. Yeah. But they, like, people will just sort of take this, what people have said and they’ll go, oh, I’m not focusing on this and maybe that’s where I’m missing out.

It’s just so easy to get distracted from your goal. So I think, like, there should be the stage where, yes, you’re looking for maybe a plan and a coach and a method to follow. But once you’ve got that, stick with it for at least six months and give it time to prove itself. Because if you’re chopping and changing every week or every month, you’re not gonna be able to see results with whatever you’re doing. So… And it’s the same with nutrition, the amount of people who, oh, I tried this and it didn’t work. I tried this and it didn’t work. Or, you know, the other one is, oh, I tried this in training and it worked like the day before their big swim. And that’s, you know, the first one is kind of listening to that noise. But the second thing is judging whether a nutrition product works for you based on, you know, just trialing in a different area. So when you’re swimming and you’ve probably found this, you know, maybe even in your rottenness swim,

is that there’s certain things that work for like an under two hour swim. If you’re a good swimmer, the nutrition doesn’t really matter so much unless you’re going, you know, closer to that four or four and a half kilometers per hour. But in most people, the nutrition needed and how your body works is different. Once you get to a two hour, the next stage is like the five to six hour. So you often hear people like, oh, you know, everything was going good. And then I felt different five or six hours in. The next one is eight hours. The next one is 12 hours. The next one is 15 hours. So we have these changes. And sometimes people think, you know, if I have this one nutrition, you know, that’s gonna be right for all distances. And that’s not the case. So what sort of changes would you see with someone who’s doing a 15 hour swim? What changes in that, in what they’re taking in, would you see across the 15 hours? Yeah.

So the thing that I do and I think works well for a lot of people and it’s something that a lot of people don’t understand is this concept of the multiple transportable carbohydrates. And it’s well understood in the literature for marathon running and for cycling and things like that when you’re going fast. So if you’re looking at using more than 90 grams per, 90 grams of carbohydrate per hour, really unlikely that a channel swimmer, unless you’re going at around that four and a half to five K an hour will need that level. And if you’re high muscular structure and you’re trying to go really quickly, but even for some of my slowest swimmers, I’ll get them to use multiple transportable carbohydrates. So if you think of it kind of like a four lane highway, is that if you try something and if you go on a four lane highway and you’re the only car on the road and you’re using one lane, then you’re not gonna find that to be a problem.

Then you start to fill up that lane and you’re just using that lane, you’re gonna get a backlog in some stage and then you overuse that carbohydrate absorption channel and then you start to feel sick. So I try and get my swimmers to use different carbohydrates so that they’re actually using at least two lanes so that they can distribute the load a little bit better. There’s some people that we can’t for multiple reasons, but for most people getting them to use all of the lanes that they can, even if they’re getting as low as 30 to 40 grams per hour, because it helps with that digestion so that they’re not being sick when they’re swimming, which is one of the biggest complications that we tend to have in channel swimming. What are those four different lanes or four different types of carbohydrates? So the multidextrin, dextrose and sucrose, they kind of use one area and they use a sodium dependent channel. So that means that you need to have salts

to kind of use those to absorb those, which we can either get from our blood, but we can also, like we don’t need to really worry about that fructose is one that’s basically by itself. Some people can handle fructose, some people can’t and that’s about using that in different ways. And one of the things that makes things hard is that in different countries, we use different sugars. So I’ve got swimmers who are in the UK, who are in the US, who are in Australia and Coke in Australia, for example, is sucrose. So it’s just normal table sugar. Coke in the US is fructose. So it’s trying to work out which type of carbohydrate they need depending on whether they want something that’s a, whether they need something that’s slower acting. And again, not just looking at absorption because if you look at absorption, you’d have something like your multidextrin which is absorbed really quickly. But when you’re swimming, it can be absorbed slower

because it’s digested slower. If I don’t know if that makes sense. Yeah, yeah, got you. So you also mentioned earlier before we had the call was training your gut. So is that training your gut to be able to handle the food? Yeah, this is one thing that we don’t know about so much. But it’s handling more amount. It’s handling having more while you’re swimming. So a couple of things that I get my channel, all of my channel swimmers to do is completely to stop from sipping, sipping drinks. So when you’re stopping normal training, you might have a sip here and there and just going straight to every half an hour, 45 or hour depending on what feeding cycle I’ve put you on, having that amount, whether it be 150, 200, 300 mil and drinking that all at once. So that’s something important to get your body used to that feeling of being bloated because you’re gonna feel bloated if you have to take in 400 mils in like 10 seconds

which is what 10 to 30 seconds is what we want you to do. But if you’re sipping at it, you’re just not training your body to absorb that, digest it and then absorb it quickly. So we do that. Then sometimes we look at training people with having more. So basically having, so it might be some days like I said previously about having the no carbohydrate and the no energy. And that’s basically if you’re sick or if you’re in the middle of the channel and you just can’t take any more in. And I’ve got lots of swimmers like this and I’ve heard lots of stories about this. You might have to swim with nothing. If you’ve already trained to do that, yes, it’s gonna be hard but your body’s at least a little bit used to doing that. Then we do some days that you’re normal nutrition. Then we do some days that are basically double dosed and they allow, because one of the thing about training your gut is increasing the amount of absorption receptors.

So what we don’t know about that is if they go back. So if someone’s at risk of chronic diseases and things like that, I tend not to use that strategy but particularly for fast swimmers and things like that, we use that strategy to try and get them used to having really concentrate. Because let’s be honest, the stuff that we have to have in the channel, even if you’re on a low carb or if you’re on high carb, like it’s not enjoyable nutrition, that’s for sure. So, but getting used to having that is really important and getting your body, your gut used to absorbing that is really important too. Yeah, it’s almost, it’s a bit of a catch, isn’t it? You’re doing all this training, you’re getting so fit but you often need to put on fat and you need to give yourself a lot of crap in the meantime as well. So I think one of those things is that, you know, a lot of people will say, you know, you need to put on 10 kilos and regardless of where they’re at,

like whether they’re short, fat, tall, skinny, all of those types of things. So it’s one of those things that I think you need to actually look at it and make a critical evaluation of what you need to do. And the second thing is the types of food that people eat. So, you know, they’re eating so much junk food and all of that type of stuff, it’s just not needed. So instead of using things like deep fried foods or whatever, you can use things that are, you know, mono-insaturated fats and macadamia and oil, avocado, extra virgin olive oil, they’re really great. So, and then any animal that jumps, hops, flies and swims. So using those types of good fats in your diet, I think are really, really helpful. For some people we use a bit of dairy, some people don’t tolerate that well and then also timing of your food. So making sure that around your sessions you’re eating the most. What I have found with a lot of my athletes,

even professional athletes in my past sports nutrition work, is that they would eat on the training days. They’re so tired and fatigued that they don’t like eating and on their, you know, rest days is when they’re eating all the junk food. So what we wanna do is try and have enough food for most days when we’re not doing some of the challenges. They’re eating enough beforehand so that they’re used to having it beforehand. They’re eating enough during and they’re eating enough following their session as well. So do they need to, in some cases, overeat a little bit to be able to put this fat on or is it just having more regular meals where maybe they’re not hungry but they’re just eating a lot more regularly. What do you sort of suggest for putting fat on? It really depends on the type of person but one thing that I believe in to be the best option is just using more liquids. So using things like fortifying foods

with macadamia nut oil and avocado oil, using juices, soft drinks, even less the unhealthy kind of style of stuff, milks, flavoured milks and stuff like that. And the reason why I do that is that it’s really difficult to go back. Like if you get yourself used to eating junk food or you get yourself used to eating larger portions, it’s really hard to lose that channel weight. Whereas a lot of swimmers that I’ve worked with when I’ve changed this mindset of trying to get all of the additional collages through liquid, they just don’t ever want to look at a thing of soft drink or flavoured milk or adding oil and stuff like that, healthy oils to your meals. They just don’t want to look at it again. So it’s really easy. We’ve kept the volume down so that they don’t keep eating that volume and keep the channel weight on but they can just kind of cut out those liquids. And that’s what I find to be most effective to get people,

particularly if they’re relatively lean and they need to put on weight quickly, well not quickly, but in that kind of three to four months. And then we can get rid of that weight just a lot easier than if we… There’s no fun having to put on weight, spend a year putting on weight and then swim the channel and spend a year taking the weight off. Like that’s hard work. Yeah, I saw that with a friend of mine. It took him over a year actually to get rid of his channel weight. And I think it was just a matter of, because he was eating a lot of donuts and fatty foods and… You get used to it, yeah. Yeah, that’s exactly right. And it’s difficult to… Yeah, it is hard to get yourself out of that habit and to stop craving those sorts of foods. And it’s like once you start eating well and then you actually crave the good foods and you can’t stand the bad foods, it’s the same thing when you’re eating poorly. It’s very hard to get out of that habit.

So, yeah, that was going to be… Yeah, my next question was, how do you… How can you put on fat without sort of doing yourself a… Killing yourself, yeah. Killing yourself, yeah, because it’s… And part of it, a lot of my swimmers now, when I look at their dexas, or if I even just look at if I’m doing a photographic somatotype, like just looking at them, a lot of them we need to put on muscle rather than fat anyway. So, that’s kind of one of the first stages. And then looking at how we, you know, increase that lean muscle mass so that we can generate the heat and then just having enough fat to kind of keep the warmth in. And that’s, you know, that’s a more effective strategy than just getting super fat and then kind of floating across, which is kind of the… Yeah, yeah, would you look at gym programs with that or strength training at all? I don’t do those. Obviously, I send them to someone else to do those sessions

or their coach might do them or whatever, but we can incorporate their nutrition around that. And then there’s certain things with age, like a lot of my swimmers and a lot of channel swimmers are older. So, looking at certain supplements that might help improve their, you know, their, I don’t know the non-science word, but like the mitochondrial respiration, which is important for energy and also for, you know, reducing risk of things like diabetes and stuff. So, we use bicarb in that. We use protein supplements like WPI just before bed and that helps maintain lean muscle mass. So, using some of those strategies, depending on the person as well. So, I’ve kind of given about, you know, a hundred different things that people can do, but of those, my swimmers might have 20 of those. You know, they might not have everything. Yeah, well, it sounds like you’ve got a good approach to it because that’s always been my,

not that I ever want to swim the channel because I’m just not a fan of cold water. Oh, that might change. Well, yeah, it did change when I swam Rotnest and I got cold at Rotnest. I was fine, but I still got pretty cold. I just, I’m not a big fan of it. So, of the cold that is. So, I don’t think that’s on my radar anytime soon, but that’s always been my biggest aversion to that stuff is just how much weight you need to put on. But I like your approach to keep as healthy as possible when you do that. Yeah, we try our best with that. And if we can keep someone, you know, as healthy as they can be, but also get across a lot of it comes down to, whereas previously, like when I first started 2012-13, we would get people really fat and then, you know, the feeding through the channel was secondary, whereas now I take a really strong approach on feeding during the channel. So then they, you know, are okay with the cold

so that they’ve got that thermoregulation even though they might feel cold. And we do, like, you know, we do meditation techniques and stuff like that to get around that as well rather than just being, you know, accepting that, oh gosh, you know, maybe it’s too cold, maybe I need to get out. But being able to work out, you know, is this cold tolerance or is it thermoregulation? Yeah, that’s good. Well, thank you so much for being on the podcast and even though you’re not taking on any more clients, let’s say someone listens to this two years down the track and you are, where can they, or how can they best get in touch with you? Yeah, the best is probably through my email. You can email my, it’s Tara at channelswimnutrition.com.

So that’s probably the best way or you can just call me. If you Google Tara Diversity, there’s not many of us around and you’ll find my phone number somewhere and I’m happy to have a chat to any channel swimmers even if it’s just a yarn, if I can’t fit them in. Yeah, fantastic. And you work with people sort of long-term, so if you’ve got one month until the channel, don’t, it’s probably not the best time to get in touch. So give yourself some leading time because it’s a process and that’s how I like to approach our, or my coaching is, I like to work with people who are in it for the long-term, not someone who wants to turn their swimming around in six weeks. It’s, you know, you’re going to get the best results when you can work long-term, at least sort of six, 12 months as a minimum. So thank you again for being on the podcast. I’ve really enjoyed it and… No problem. We got introduced through Andrew, who’s in Melbourne who runs Dexter

and I’ve got a podcast with him next up. So yeah, it’s a small world and I get to meet a lot of great people so I appreciate you coming on. No problem, thank you. Thanks for listening to the Effortless Swimming podcast. If you’d like us to help you become a faster, more efficient swimmer, go to www.effortlesswimming.com.