Welcome to the Effortless Swimming podcast to show that help swimmers and triathletes love the water, become a better swimmer and live a better life. Here’s your host, Brenton Ford. Welcome to the Effortless Swimming podcast. On today’s episode, I have a swimmer that I’ve worked with over the last few, well, longer than the last few months, but I’ve got Scott Roth on the podcast. So Scott, welcome to the podcast. Thank you. Thank you. I’m glad to be here. I sent you a message a couple of weeks ago saying, would you like to jump on the podcast because we’ve done some stroke analysis coaching together for a while. And you’ve been getting some really good results. And one of the things you said was your stroke count had gone from an average of about 18 strokes a lap down to 14 consistently. And I thought, well, that’s a that’s a good thing to talk about and see what you’ve done to make. But you’re also swimming pretty quick. You’re

racing with racing as a master swimmer. And I think you went to 103 for the 100 short course yards. The other day, and you said you’re targeting sub 60, which is always a good target to go for. So it’d be great to get you on the podcast, talk about what where you were when we first started working together, what’s your background as a swimmer? And then what are some of those things that you’ve worked on in the last couple of months and longer than that to see improvements in your in your swimming? So maybe just to start what is your swimming background? And what do you do for work as well? So how do you fit all of that in? Sure, sure. So I’m a master swimmer. I just turned 60 lax last week. And growing up, I, you know, I was I was an age group swimmer. I swam from age, maybe about eight to 18 on club teams. So back into 60s and 70s, there wasn’t a lot of emphasis on freestyle techniques, at least that I can

remember. Pretty old school kind of swimmer, you know, big wide S pull through my freestyle. And the only way you got better was to do more of it. So if you’re doing it wrong, you were doing it wrong compounded. And I got to be pretty good in my teenage years, made it to New Jersey State. I’m from the states New Jersey State, the Junior Olympics. And by the time I was about 17 or 18, I kind of burned out from the sport. And also, since you asked what I do, I’m an architect. So when I applied to colleges to get into architecture school, there really was no time to have a sport at the same time. So my swimming career pretty much ended at age 18. But I still kept in shape. I got into track and cross country and started to do some cycling. And then triathlon became very popular is actually kind of was born in my era. And when I got into triathlon a little bit, I realized I had to jump back into the pool and do something to be

able to make it through a 800 meter swim. So I joined a local gym. This is in my 30s now. Just probably about four to six weeks before triathlon, just to get my feet wet and feel like I can make it through the swim. And that’s pretty much all I did as far as training. And then after triathlon season was over, I put it away, it was done with swimming at that point again. So years went by, decades wait by, I stopped doing triathlons. And it wasn’t until I was in my early 50s that I started to get back into physical shape again, started with running and cycling. I really enjoyed cycling because it didn’t give me many injuries and running did. So I dropped the running and kept with the cycling. And I actually started a cycling club here in Chicago. It’s been going for 10 years now. And there’s a bunch of younger guys, I’m the oldest one on on the club. And the younger guys all are into triathlon, some of them are very good. A lot of post grads

right out of college. So they’re fresh off their college swimming and cycling and triathlon days. So I had to really start to keep up with this group. And as I’m aging at the same time. So one of the guys on our cycling club, he is a swimmer as well. He does triathlons. And he was on this master’s team that’s here in Chicago. And he invited me to come along because we’re going to do a triathlon together. And I was like, look, before I get into a two hour or hour and a half type of training session, I got to make sure I can handle, you know, three to 4000 meters in a in one swim in a workout. So I spent about two or three weeks kind of mimicking what they had on the whiteboard, as far as the workout was concerned. And I could not do any of the intervals that were on that board. I barely could understand the workouts. I mean, this is how much the sport has changed, right? I mean, I would read these workouts and it looked

like an algebraic formula to me. You know, I was used to doing 10 of one thing or five of one thing. But all of these sets had different speeds and variables and stroke counts. And I just didn’t know what it all meant. So I finally said, look, I’ll just dive in and see where I’m at. So I went to my first practice. And this was about a year and a half ago. And the coaches were very good. We actually have the next Olympian as one of the coaches from Hungary, his his country. And they’re very good at structuring the workouts. But you know, when you get into a group or a squad or a team, you know, it’s hard to work on any kind of stroke technique, when you’ve got 3040 people in a pool, and you’re really just trying to get everyone in a workout in an hour to an hour and a half. So they put me on the slow lane, and I slowed, I progressively moved up to the some of the faster lanes. But I was getting, I was getting in shape, maybe

aerobically, but I wasn’t getting any faster. And when I would finish a set or like a few 100s, I was just gassed. We just, I couldn’t, I just figured was old age. So anyway, at one point, the coach started, you know, pointing yelling out pointers to me in the middle of the set, which is not the best way to correct your stroke when you’re trying to survive. And all he kept saying to me was you’re spinning, you’re spinning, you’re not gliding, you’re just moving your arms as fast as you can. You’re not grabbing the water, you’re slipping. He’s saying all these terms. And I thought I was a good swimmer. I had no idea what he was talking about. And truth be told, I just took it all to heart because I’m a learner, and I’m going to fix this problem. So I just jumped, I got back from the workout and my wife looked at me and I was just deflated. And I said, look, I thought I was doing great. But you know, they must have reinvented freestyle

since I did it last time. So I said, I got to blow this thing up and kind of start over again. There’s a whole new way of doing things. I barely understood the workout and these terms that were being presented to me, I didn’t understand. So I got on YouTube, as anyone would do, and started looking up freestyle. And, you know, a plethora of videos come up. And I was like, wow, there’s a lot of focus on this, on this one stroke. You just started YouTube. Oh, my goodness. And, you know, and they all kind of said the same thing, but they all had different approaches. But what happened was, I wanted to be more effortless, because what my main problem was I was getting gassed after, you know, 100 repeats with, you know, on a 145 or two minute interval, which to me that that seemed pretty easy. So I noticed your videos effortless swimming, which is effortless freestyle is what I was looking for. And started watching your videos. And I was like, wow,

this is like, right on point. It’s simple to understand. The thing that I really loved about it was you had real people doing it. It wasn’t just charts and graphs and diagrams. And they weren’t all professionals. There are some professionals in there. But you had other people posting their issues. And then you’re critiquing them. And I’m like, wow, this is really cool. This is exactly what I need. So I didn’t tell my coaches back at the master’s team that I was going to jump in to an online coaching service, because I don’t want to offend them. And I wanted to get this corrected so that I could actually perform better at the practices and not get yelled at all the time. So I started with I didn’t jump into the membership right away. I started watching your videos that had more of the drills and what the drills were for. And I would try to get to the pool five or 10 minutes early before the warm up and try to implement a couple of these drills, not

really knowing what I was trying to correct at the same time. And you know, they seem to have a purpose. They seem to, you know, in the warm up, I seem to be able to do some things. But then once we started the practice, it was just all on and you know, everything kind of fell apart. So that’s when I decided, you know what, I’m going to join this program and get some real tutoring and some real coaching on the side here. So the next thing I have to do is technology, right? How am I going to record myself? I had no idea. So I just so I searched underwater cameras, I got myself a GoPro, had to figure out a couple of weeks, I just work that thing, and then get to the gym or get to the pool on the days that we weren’t working out, and actually record myself. So that’s what I did. I got into, you know, I got my own name, this is all during COVID. So it was very difficult to get pool time on top of it. And our

particular pool really didn’t want anyone recording anything. So I had to find, you know, the outside lane at an odd hour of the day to get in there and record myself and then shoot them off to you and give you my little background story in a text or an email and here we are. So yeah, that’s a long winded background, but that’s how we got to where we are right now. That’s great. I was speaking to someone on the weekend, she said, I got she got some instruction. I think she went maybe went to a clinic or some, you know, like a couple hour thing. And the only feedback she got was that the only thing good about your stroke is your breathing. And she was like, okay, well, that’s like, it’s really helpful. Thanks so much for that. And I find it’s like as a, yeah, it’s just like, first of all, that’s, but yeah, it’s not very helpful. It doesn’t help me make any changes. And probably don’t feel good about you about your swimming. So the

approach I’ve always wanted to take with people, especially adults is well, first of all, people probably don’t know what they shouldn’t shouldn’t be doing. And that’s that’s the first thing. So why give them a hard time if they’re not doing the right thing. And secondly, there’s a lot to coordinate when you’re swimming. So, you know, you can’t expect people to be swimming, swimming perfectly, and to get things straight away. It’s like these things take time. So why be a bit of why be an asshole when you’re coaching? Why don’t you just be, you know, patient and nice about it. And people are gonna be a lot more receptive that way. So I think not to say that your coaches are that way. But I certainly know some some coaches that, yeah, that have that approach. And I just don’t find it very helpful at all. And I’ve had coaches like that in the past. And then in terms of what your so what we sort of picked out at the start and what you’ve

worked on over that time. What were some of those initial things that that we saw and and what were you thinking about then when you went back to the pool to work on them? Sure. So I guess the thing that really stuck in my head, which was the critique from my coaches and and believe me, I really think that we have a great coaching staff. And they do take the time to work with you when you asked for it. But I didn’t even know what to ask for. I mean, that doesn’t really work. Sorry. But the whole spinning and slipping thing, I really didn’t understand what that meant. And it wasn’t until you I sent you the videos. And the first thing you said to me was, you’re not front quadrant swimming, or freestyle stroke. I had no idea what that meant. And then when you showed it in the video of how the quadrants were broken down and how you have to have one hand always in front of your head. To me, it was almost like a three quarter

catch up kind of the drill that we would do in practice. But you know, drills that I knew 40 years ago were to relax. That was to give yourself a break from the workout. It wasn’t to correct anything. So yeah, the front quadrant freestyle was really the big thing that was the eye opener to me. And then how to do it. And then how is that going to make me better in the pool? Back in and started trying it. And the first thing I noticed was, I’ve got a lot of dead space when I reach out and try to grab, you know, get the other hand in. And what I ended up doing was, as you mentioned, I was kicking way too hard in between the poles. And I was just as exhausted trying to do what I was, you know, the distances I was doing before, but it might look prettier. So it didn’t really accomplish what I was set out to do. And then we talked and we went back and forth on some other videos. And you mentioned about trying, trying not to put all your effort into the kick

into these two, as you pull from each side. And what I then did was, you know, I looked at your eight week program that you had. And in one of those weeks, I think it was week seven was about the, the kick to match the timing of your pull. So I really just focused on that. My natural kick is kind of a two beat crossover kind of kick. I was kind of a middle distance distance swimmer as a kid. And I guess that just, you know, fit me well. So I tried to really implement the one kick per pole on each side. And then I’ll fill in a little bit in between where I could. And then it wasn’t until you said the word, I’m very visual because I’m an architect, right? It wasn’t until you mentioned to me, think of it as skating. That’s when the light bulb went off in my head. It was like, ah, I know how to skate. I know how to ski. I know what that glide kind of feels like. And when you put an effort in and you get the

most in return for that one push. So for weeks, that’s all I kept thinking was glide, skate, glide, skate, and really try to get that timing down with my down kick on one pole with one leg. And see how that works out. So I felt like I was really improving. And I think I was. And then what I realized was it felt slow. But I was still going the same speed. And that really didn’t click in my head until I started applying this to the repeat sets we were doing in practice, because I didn’t want to end up at the back of the line in lay line. While I’m trying all this stuff. But I realized I’m staying in the same position on that. I’m doing this technique. And as you mentioned, my in the middle of the 200, I said, Well, let me wait till about the 125 or 150 and count my strokes, because I’m kind of exhausted that at that point, and I’ll see what how I am when I’m tired. And I counted my strokes and it was 14 strokes. And I realized, you know what, I’ve always been an

18 stroke per lap swimmer, and my stroke count is coming down. And I’m hitting about the same times. That was a couple seconds faster on the 100 with this new technique. And nobody’s yelling at me. So something’s working. So yeah, so that was the big change in my stroke. From that, now I’m now we’re really working on, you know, getting my catch correct, I think. And believe me, the catch, the reach in the catch, that whole high elbow recovery thing, that’s all new to me. I mean, back in my day, 40 years ago, high elbow swimming meant put your elbow towards the sky when you take it out of the water. It was to get you that kind of hinge look right when you’re swimming on the over the water, not under the water. Nothing was done under the water because we didn’t have cameras. So anyway, yeah, I started to really focus on now that I’ve got that kind of concept down at the front quadrant. And I’m doing it enough now that when I

stopped doing it, or if I’m too tired, and I’m pulling down too hard, too fast, I recognize it. Where before it was the other way around, it was like, I had to think about doing it. Now I realize when I’m not doing it. So I know that’s that’s kind of a muscle memory thing. So yeah, now with the catch, I’m really starting to focus on where that positioning to be and applying some of those other drills that you have the YNCA and that sort of stuff to get that catch down. And I think even mentioned in one of my more recent videos that the catch is right there. It’s in the right position. And now it’s more of a tweaking thing. I’m still doing a little bit of crossover. I’ve always had a crossover on my stroke as I pulled down. But I noticed that it’s less now than it was before. And that’s probably because you know, if I’m not doing front quadrant, I’m just spinning my arms so much. I’m trying to balance myself in whichever way the

arms are moving is the way they’re moving. So we got one arm straightened out. The other arm’s almost there, but it still crosses a little bit just on breathing now. So if you’re making progress there. But anyway, after all this technique stuff, we had a swim meet for the masters team come up about three months ago. And I hadn’t been in a pool for time, other than, you know, a couple sets at the end of a practice, but I hadn’t been off the starting blocks in 40 years. So that was a little intimidating. And that’s a whole nother subject to talk about. And so we went to the swimming and I said, you know, I’m just going to do a 50 and 100 free. I’m a breastrope or two, I had a 50 breaststroke in there. But when I did that got on the blocks for the 100 free, I had no idea what to enter my time at because you know, I’ve been working with you. And I had gotten my repeat times down to about 117 on a 130 interval. And this is short course yards. And

actually now I’m down to about 115, 116 on that same set. But I didn’t know what it was going to feel like fresh off a block. So I did I went all out and I did a 103 free. And I was like, whoa, this is this is pretty exciting. So I got something now to hang on my wallet, you know, look, I can I can actually have a chance here to break a minute. So my goal, like I said, is to be under 60 at age 60. And I’ve got about two more months to do that, because I actually qualified for the US Masters Nationals, which is at the end of April here in San Antonio, Texas. So that’s my goal.

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smartphone too, they all sync with the form app. And then you can review all of the details of your swim. And you can see what other swimmers are up to in the form swim community as well. I’m a big fan of these goggles. I was really impressed when I use them. And I use them for the vast majority of the sessions that I’m currently doing. To find out more about the form swim goggles, go to formswim.com. And you can use our coupon code effortless at checkout and save $15 off your order. Back to the podcast. Fantastic. And so going back to the first thing you mentioned there, which was the front quadrant part of the stroke, that can take a couple of sessions to work out for people who, let’s say, aren’t front quadrant, because sometimes they’ll either go too far with it, too much of a catch up where one hand’s meeting the other way out the front. There’s a big pause. And then you’re kicking hard to try and work through

that dead spot in the stroke. And so it sounds like you hit that. And then we had to find that sweet spot in the middle, which just takes a bit of, yeah, a bit of practice. And yeah, it’s like, once you get it, it’s like, oh, okay, this is, this feels good. You can get that sensation of skating as opposed to feeling you’re on this treadmill with no stop button on it. And that helps keep the heart right down. Obviously, the stroke count comes down along along with it. And I find that skating

analogy helpful for a lot of people because that’s what it feels like. It’s like you’re just skating on that arm or that that armpit every time you take a stroke there. And we want to keep the hand in motion. It should never stop out in front. And, and that’s kind of what skating is, like a nice skater on the rink there. It’s just like that travel time left, left to right. Now, obviously, it’s like a 50 sprints, maybe a little bit different. You won’t have that much of a skating sensation because your stroke rate’s up high. But anything mid to long distance, it’s, for most people, it’s going to feel like they’re, they’re skating side to side. And I like the fact that you’ve now gone from stack that conscious where you really have to think about things and conscious. And when you’re conscious about all these movements, it’s very taxing in terms of energy wise, just mentally, like it uses a lot of energy to think about this

consistently. But then enough time with enough practice, it’s then become subconscious. And you realize when you’re not when those things aren’t in place. And that’s, it’s great when you’ve got that awareness because then, you know, you can pick up if things have fallen out of place. And you know what it should feel like and, and yeah, and you got to that, that point, which is, which is terrific. Do you know roughly how long that took for you to make it become subconscious? Yeah, I would say it was a good couple months, if not more. And you know, even to this day, you know, at the end of a practice, when really pushing hard, I really then have to really think, okay, what am I doing here? Am I trying to make this just make it interval? Or am I thinking about not falling, not having my stroke fall apart? And I always choose to have my stroke be the number one concern there. And I still make it. So, you know, it’s important because, you know,

if you’re if you’re if you’re pushing hard, and you’re doing it wrong, or things start to fall apart, it’s not going to help you in the long run. And that’s, that’s kind of what I’ve learned, you know. So yeah, it took two or three months for that to really sink in. Like I said, now, now I notice when I’m not doing it, which is tells me that it’s really embedded in there. And when it came to your hundred freestyle, your sprint in the race there, do you know, were you using a two beat kick or were you going with a six beat? Do you have any idea about what what sort of style you’re doing there? Sure, it was definitely more than two.

Because, you know, I never knew this either that you can change your kicks, right? Based on the speed and the distance you’re doing, because like I said, I was always kind of a middle distance, the distance swimmer. So I never really needed that explosiveness from the blocks to the finish and keep the motor running. I like to pace myself. And then, you know, obviously on the last 50 or the last whatever of whatever you’re doing, you would turn up the kick. But yeah, on that hundred, I was definitely a four, probably six is my guess. But, you know, and I also have learned, and this is more recently, is when we get into these sprint sets, because a lot of people are asking me questions now and I’m trying to help them, you know, through this too. And they say, look, I’m a sprinter, I’m never going to do more than a hundred. Why do I need to lay out there and do this thing that would be doing if you’re doing like a mile swim in the ocean

or something like that? I said, you know what, that’s a good point. And then what I noticed was in my own hundred when I was sprinting, I didn’t necessarily take that extra time out there. But it made me reach further and I felt the water more. So I was really aware of grabbing the water where before I would just be spinning and trying to try to make it as fast as I could. So there’s a sensation you get out of it, is I guess is what I’m saying is that you feel the force of you pulling the water differently, even though your stroke rate or count is picking up when you’re sprinting. Yeah, it’s a good it’s a good question for them to to ask. And when you look at when you look at sprinters, really good sprinters, you’ll get Caleb Dresswall, who’s probably the best, best example of the fastest man on the planet over 15 100. He he’s like super high stroke, right? But if you look at him under the water, he still enters and reaches forwards before he

starts the catch. He doesn’t go in and straight down. There’s still that reach. And I think it’s a combination of like you get like you’re more streamlined. That’s kind of your fastest point through the stroke there when you’re reaching forwards, because that’s when you’re most streamlined. So you want to take that split second to be in that position so you can maximize the kind of propulsion from your rotation and your hand exiting. So you need to keep your length there for a split second. And then the other part of it, too, is when you are up here, instead of maybe like you’ve just gone deep, you get that length through these muscles and your torso and your hips and you really get more of that sort of Serape effect where those muscles all work together there. Whereas if you’re just like short here, you never quite quite get it because the muscles haven’t haven’t lengthened. So I think it’s a combination of of those two things. And even

though it’s a lot more subtle when you’re sprinting, it’s it’s still really, really important. And I feel a lot of people I see at clinics where probably like, let’s say one in, I don’t know, one in three to a quarter of the adults that come to clinics, they don’t have that reach phase. It’s just enter and straight down and it’s like so much more drag, first of all, and you’re missing out on that much of your setup phase in there in the catch. And so yeah, if you’re doing that, that’s an easy win just to make things easier and to find some extra speed. And you know, I’d say a good good majority of people who haven’t had much instruction. And if they look like they’re swimming short, that’s a big a big factor, I’d say. Right. Right. The other thing I noticed too, and I think I mentioned this in one of our critiques was I had taken a break because I was getting some rotator cuff problems. And I got I had to go through physical therapy to

work on that. And I was just as I was starting to get this concept down. But I think I was I was pushing too hard the other way. And it was putting too much stress on my right rotator cuff and my right shoulder. And until I got this glide down and this to be kicked thing down, the shoulder resolved itself. So I say that’s a testament to this way of swimming. Absolutely. So you felt like you were putting too much power into the the downward part of the string. Yeah, yeah, because, you know, the only way to get if you’re swimming that way, the only way to get faster is to pull harder. There’s no there’s no efficiency out of it. So, you know, that’s probably what I was doing was just pulling too hard, too fast, too deep, too straight armed. And it just wore on my shoulder. And then, you know, switching over to this method. My shoulders resolve itself. That’s great. It’s great to hear. And it’s, it’s really common. I have a number of summers who will

come to clinic. So I work with online that they’ve got shoulder pain. You know, it’s pretty common when you’re swimming. And large majority of the time, it’s from something that they’re doing in there in their stroke. And there’s a few causes there. So one is like you mentioned, they’re just applying too much downwards force in the beginning. And so it’s like, you know, if you’re up here and you’re pushing hard, it’s like, well, yeah, that loads up through the rotator cuff a lot. So that’s sort of no surprise. I had a girl on the weekend, a young girl who’s training for the English Channel later this year. She was getting some shoulder pain. She’s doing some big caves. But one of the things she was doing was she was great summer, wonderful looking catch and pull. But she was overdoing it to the point where she was trying to be too shallow, like, you know, high elbows and just trying to go high near the surface. So she was very

shallow. And then really close to the body. She was just getting jammed up through there. So it wasn’t allowing her to kind of use the bigger, stronger muscles to her back and shoulders because she was overdoing her high elbow. And then when she went a bit deeper, she was like, yeah, this feels so much better. And then there’s sometimes I think with the recovery, like you mentioned the high elbow recovery, trying to come over really high over the top. When people are trying to do that, they normally just their hands too close to the body, they’re like, it’s an awkward position. And when I demonstrate it to when I’m in person, I’m like, I’m trying to be careful because it’s like, it doesn’t feel great when you with your shoulder. So if you can be in more natural position, which is usually a little bit wider, yeah, a lot more comfortable. So there’s a couple of things there that if you have got shoulder problems when you swim, tech it can be because

of your your techniques. So there, you know, some of the three, three main ones there that I that I see.

Sure, sure. And the other thing you mentioned earlier was so you’re catching your pool, one of the things you were doing was coming under the body. So the fingertips pointing off to the side of the pool, instead of pointing mostly to the bottom. And, and so you said that for you, it was because you weren’t reaching forwards that you’d enter, you’d go deep. And then there’s kind of nowhere else for that arm to go except for under the body, because it’s got to pull through. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And then also, the other thing I noticed too, on the front quadrant version of doing that, and getting the timing down with my kick. So, you know, you can’t do everything at once, you have to learn these things in parts. So once I started understanding the kind of catch up way of doing the pull. Now I’m trying to memorizing and time my down kick with my arm. So that forces me to leave it out there in the right position longer. Otherwise, you know, I

get all out of balance and kind of snake my way down, down the pool. So yeah, having the correct catch is just as important as doing the front quadrant to make this whole thing work in the timing. And that that kick timing, there’s sort of two ways to think about it, the one that you mentioned, which is you want to try and time your right arm catch. At the same time, you kick down on that that right side. And especially for you know, usually especially for a two beat kick and more just this sort of style. That’s a good way to think of it. And when you get it working together, like you feel it, you kind of just feel everything working together and you get that skating sensation. And the other way to think of it, which is it’s basically the same thing, but it’s another way just to think of things is you can either time your tanned entry with your right foot kicking down. So going opposite. It’s basically the same thing, but a different

way to think of it. And I find some people prefer it the first way. Some people prefer it the second way. It really just just depends. And it’s a very hard to think about anything else apart from your kick timing when you’re doing it because it’s just I know it’s a bit of an awkward one to kind of be thinking about much when you when you swim. Yeah, it’s like it’s like dancing, which I’m not good at either.

Yeah, me either. Don’t worry about that one.

Yeah, so it’s it is a bit of a tricky one. Something to help there is that if you’re trying to think about it on both sides, it can be a little bit too overwhelming. So I’ll get people to start by thinking of one side only. Just go right arm right leg, tune into that sort of feeling and that rhythm. And then once you’ve kind of got that, just just go by feel rather than thinking too much about catching kick together. Just just tune into that rhythm that you’ve you’ve got and dance as best as you can when you when you swim. Right. Right. Yeah, and and to your points, I’m only about, I don’t know, three or four weeks into this trying to really focus on it. And you’re right. I’m doing it for both sides is difficult for me right now. I’ve got the right hand right foot motion synchronized. I’m not quite there on the left, but I’m doing it enough that it’s making an improvement for me to not leave my, you know, not fill that dead speed with a

bunch of dead space with a bunch of kicks. Yeah. And that’s so in for those that are doing the eight week faster freestyle course in the membership. That’s week seven. We talk about kick kick timing. And yeah, a lot of feedback I’ve had is that like it that that’s helped a lot of people reduce their stroke count because when things are working together, then obviously you’re going to travel further with each stroke and it’s going to be a lot less, a lot less effort. But we work on that in week in week seven because we get some of the other things just in place first with balance and breathing and recovery and all those sorts of things. So you could work on it earlier on. But I think, yeah, towards the end, I find is is best for most people because it’s one of those things that’s hard to think about for too much. It can be a bit overwhelming. Sure. Sure. So looking at looking forwards, what what what do you enjoy most about about your swimming and being

back in the water after swimming as a teenager and then not being in the water for for a number of years?

Well, I guess what I’m so excited about is I feel like there’s so much more to learn and so much more to correct and so much better to get even as I age. The proofs in the pudding in my times that are dropping. And I look at this as a lifelong thing now where before it was just like, you know, the season was over. I’ll thank goodness and then you moved on to another sport. But this is now something that’s enjoyable. And, you know, my goal, my real long term goal is to look like the guy in your video. What’s his name? Dan Smith, the easiest 110 per 100 meters freestyle. If I can make my stroke, I don’t know if I’ll do 110. But if I can make my stroke look like that guy, that’s that’s my goal.

You’ll be getting the comments at the at the pool when when you’re swimming like Dan is there. It’s it’s a beautiful. Yeah, isn’t it? And it’s just it’s like poetry. Yeah, it is. It is. There’s

there’s a girl who just recently completed a double crossing of Lake Taupo, which is over in New Zealand. It’s about 40 Ks each way. So it’s about an 80 K swim. And so there’s a video that was posted on just one of the swim groups, New Zealand swim groups. And she has she’s got a stroke very much like that. And it’s just a beautiful stroke. And she’s doing that for this big long swim. I’m going to I think contact her and maybe get her on the podcast as well and share that footage because it’s just it’s mesmerizing to watch when you see someone with that that grace and that timing. And just that sort of perfect looking stroke. So it’s yeah, it’s achievable and 70th birthday to cruising up and down, even if it’s one 20 pace looking like that. I’d say it’s a good thing to aim for. So I’ve got to appreciate you being on the podcast and it’s been great working with you. I’m looking forward to seeing where this goes. Thank you. I enjoyed it.

And I look forward to keep doing it as well. Thank you, Brandon. Thanks for listening to the effortless swimming podcast. If you’d like us to help you become a faster, more efficient swimmer, go to www.effortlesswimming.com.