Welcome to this episode of effortless swimming podcast my guest today is Ari Clough And he’s a professional triathlete who started only at the beginning of this year And he essentially came from no swimming background at all And he’s gotten to the point now where he’s swimming very well for someone who doesn’t have any background in swimming His background was in running and he was an NCAA runner and that’s particularly a strength But he’s a very good cyclist as well So on this podcast we explore what he’s gone through in the last year In terms of how he started with his swimming Where is that now and some of those things that he worked on and focused on With his technique to get to the point where he is now And you’d be surprised to I guess he where he’s at So one of the things he mentioned on the podcast was he he’s got a 2100 set that he does Leaving on 125 at the moment. He’s coming in around 112 and this is short course yard

So about 10 percent quicker than the meters But 112 is leaving on 125 for 2100 is is really good for someone with no swimming background Even for someone with a swimming background. That’s it’s still a pretty tidy time. So This is him with with nine months of swimming And I’m looking forward to seeing what he does over the next six six to 12 months and onwards from there Because he’s progressed immensely and I will be doing a video on youtube Looking at that improvement with his stroke and his swimming So watch out for for that one as well and on this podcast we talk about How a sequence of things happened for for arey from the the passing of his sister to then Going to leaving his full-time job to training triathlon full-time and getting a call up from Lionel Sanders to come and train with him in arizona And and in that time he’s also been building a bit of a youtube audience and following there And it just sort of all came came about with a

With a sequence of events that was quite interesting. So I really enjoyed this chat with arey. I hope you do too So let’s get stuck into the episode Welcome to the effortless swimming podcast to show that helps swimmers and triathletes love the water Become a better swimmer and live a better life. Here’s your host brenton ford

Welcome to the effortless swimming podcast. My guest today is arey clow arey. Welcome to the podcast Thanks for having me So why a friend of mine he sent me a text and he goes you guys check out this video Yeah, you get mentioned in it and He sent me to one of your recent videos that you posted on youtube That you’ve been working your swimming and you said you’ve been watching the effortless swimming videos So that watch down. That’s that’s really cool. It’s um that it’s been able to help And then I sort of you know, did a bit of a deep dive on What’s like what you’ve been doing and and what your story is and I thought I’d be good to get you on the podcast Just to to talk about that because it sounds as though you’re going through a lot of the things that Many triathletes go through with their swimming not coming from a swimming background, but more a running background and maybe some of the frustrations

And the the joys of swimming but the the up and down the roller coaster that that comes with it So I thought that’d be a good conversation just to to sort of see how that’s going for you So for those listening, what’s your what’s your background and what brought you to triathlon?

Uh, so I started running in in high school. So it’s a little over 10 years ago um freshman year high school joined the cross country team and just ran All high school then uh, it was good enough to get on the team at the university of virginia Um, so I ran division one for four and a half years Um, and just as I was starting to sort of figure things out ran a really good 3k um pandemic hits and the uh, my final outdoor season is uh, canceled so uh, decided to withdraw from my master’s program and started a full-time software engineering job Which was remote so ended up going out to seattle with a friend of mine who was running pro

With the the brooks beasts and they you know hooked me up with gear and you know I was doing workouts with them, but I got injured pretty quick

And I think the important detail is that seattle at this point is like october raining every single day so I bought a bike trainer to Just cross train every day. I was just like I need to have this close And I’m just going to grind on the bike until this injury heals up and So I started biking fell in love with it really quick and I you know, I was pretty good at it off the bat um and Also decided to start a youtube channel Uh, just sort of detailing my return back from injury and getting into biking and at somewhere along the line Lionel and Talbot Cox found my channel And invited me out to Tucson and I was like, okay, I’m gonna go I’m gonna go to Tucson And I’m gonna swim every day and see what happens. And so I started swimming I won’t say with Lionel because you know, he’s for all the Uh, flaky gets about being a poor swimmer. He’s still you know relative to the average person. He’s a very very good swimmer

um But yeah, so I was just hopped in there and even though I sucked at it I just I fell in love and I fell in love with training all three disciplines and

Just having multiple sessions every single day And then yeah, my current coach basically Invited me to new hampshire to train with him and his group and it seemed like that was the best fit at the time and uh, so that’s how I ended up back on this side of the country, but Um, that’s the that’s the rough outline of how I got into triathlon. So The time I went to Tucson in March. So mid-march 2021 Is when I started the training in the pool Wow Gee so I mean, that’s that’s really impressive in that we were talking earlier. So you’ve done you’ve done one half at the moment And only having swum for the last eight to nine months. Did you swim at high school or learned to swim as a kid? Like what was your nothing? I mean, I I not I was never on swim team, you know, I

There was one stint in early on my freshman year of college where I had a stress reaction in my foot so I was in the pool for about three and a half weeks and It’s funny to like think back on what I was doing because I I would swim for a half an hour and be like, oh my god I can’t stand this. I would literally so I think once I swam for an hour and I was like This is gonna be my long swim. And also I would just sort of go back and forth, you know, touch turning Nice structure or anything until until I hit time. Yeah

Some some laps would be hard some laps would be easy at alternate But yeah, I didn’t I didn’t have a concept of a warm-up and a main set and drills or yeah, I didn’t And you know, it was three. I I wasn’t keeping track of time either. So I could not tell you how fast I was swimming But yeah, so three and a half ish four weeks while I was out from running It’s the really the only experience I’ve had in the pool So that was like 2016 Yeah, gotcha and and then when you went to train with Lionel and you jumped in the pool What did you start with and how did it feel when you first began swimming?

Uh, what do you mean? What did I start with? Like did you were you jumping in to that with his training sessions? Or were you like just doing a few laps like how did you how did you kick it off? Oh, yeah, I mean day one. So his his coach, uh, Justin Slade great, you know, a great great guy, um He would I would sort of do the same set. Uh, that Lionel was doing but

Just like knock off a 25 or a 50 so that I would be able to make the interval So I was swimming around the same like time that he was and like he tried to Justin tried to line up the rest Um, but yeah, so if he was doing hundreds I was doing 75s that sort of thing um, and honestly day day one, uh, I I don’t even know if I made it, you know, 2,500 to 3,000 yards before my, uh, calf and and foot started cramping Um, and I tried to keep going and Justin was just like you’re you’re done. You’re not You don’t come back from that. So just try again tomorrow And uh, I was not happy because I was not I that wasn’t how I wanted, uh My first session with uh Lionel Sanders to go and I didn’t want to make that that sort of impression but Um, I did get to redeem myself on the track later that evening

Yeah, yeah, that’s well like the thing is it’s to come from Like when you’re jumping a triathlon Most people aren’t going to be good at least one of the legs when they begin and so I imagine it’s quite a humbling experience and you’ve got to accept or you’ve got to lose your ego and accept the fact that all right, I’ve got some work to do here And as long as I’m patient and I put in the work I can get there But it’s those initial couple of months where it’s that steep learning curve that I find can be the hardest with anything And uh, and I mean I found that with I’ve done a season of triathlon and the biking was not my strength And yeah, it’s just these guys are absolutely smashing me and it’s it’s a bit frustrating and You know sometimes it feels like I’ll never I’ll never get there, but uh as long as you can just persist. I think it you know, it can happen So what’s uh, what was going through your head those first couple of weeks when you started in the pool

Well, honestly what what you’re saying is is very similar to my experience running in high school Like I I’ve been around a lot of great runners and almost all the great runners I’ve been around Ran somewhere in the range of of 420 in the mile as like a high school freshman Um, and they were running just off the bat. They were running 17 18, you know So minutes some some of them faster for like their 5k in cross country like just starting out Um, and so I started and I was running I ran I just ran under 26 minutes around 25 38 was my first 5k in cross country and like I didn’t know what was good what people were running the best guys on my team were running mid 17s Um, but you know, I just got hooked on you know by the end of the season I ran just under 21 and so I got hooked on the just improvement process Um, and sort of just I mean that was the first introduction in my life to something where it’s like if you work really hard

You’ll continue to get better and I was like, well if I just keep working if I outwork everyone for a very long time Like I’m going to be really good at it. Um, and so it took me a long time to sort of get to get on a Division one sort of prospect level You know, it took me two two and a half years. Honestly, I wasn’t really getting any offers until my senior year of cross country. So in the fall um so that season was just good enough to um get on the roster at uva and even then I was uh Like I was a good recruit, but I wasn’t even the best in my class Um, and so I just kept the same mindset of you know, I’m going to be I’m going to be the best person on this team Um, and so my my experience running was was one very much of like I wasn’t good off the bat Um, and it was just if I attack this you know with Intentionality every day and uh, I keep working and and now I I know that I need to be smart about it

So I’m approaching swimming the same way of okay. I’m not good at this But that doesn’t mean that in 10 years from now I can’t be really really good and um So yeah, it’s just I knew I knew You know, I had a hope that I was going to be good off the bat and uh my my hopes were crushed pretty much immediately And uh, but that’s fine. That’s like that’s fine. Um, I’ll be shocked if they weren’t you know to not swim at all to then just like Doing well. It’s like Yeah, I couldn’t say how that would be possible It would be good. Yeah, I had no idea Uh, how you would just like understand how to swim properly like I know there are people who just run with great form Just starting out. They’ve never ran before and they just that’s how they do it But I don’t I don’t know how you would do that with swimming like how would you know? How would you be able to just feel that it’s it doesn’t feel uh I mean, I guess it feels natural once you know and once you practice it for thousands and thousands, you know millions of strokes

um But yeah, so I mean about my whole mindset, you know then and now was I’m gonna do this for five six ten years And I’ll be good then um, I didn’t uh I wasn’t like, oh, I’m not good at this. I’m gonna go back to running. Uh, there was never really that thought pretty much once I decided to go to Tucson and hop in the pool of like I’m doing triathlon and there’s really no going back

Yeah, yeah, nice. It’s uh, because I think the For a lot of people who you know come from a strong running background they And if they’re like thinking of dipping the toe in and they you know hit any sort of challenges like that It’s very easy to go. Okay. No, no, I’m done But if you’ve committed to it and you’re willing to put in the time then it’s a very different different story And you’ve said uh, so with your first I saw your first half Ironman the swim time was 29 minutes So around about a what’s that just over 130 like 130. Yeah some yeah 130 So something like that in the 130s, I guess And so and over and you said over the last three months or so you feel like your swimming’s really come along even since since then so In terms of like times in the pool and stuff. How’s that changed in the last couple of months?

Uh, well for one of the I’m way stronger. So the uh, the typical set we do we have a threshold set on Tuesdays and that’s um If you’re feeling good, it’s a it’s a really good marker of fitness. Um, and if you’re feeling bad, you’re just kind of in for a long day, uh, but And before before that first 70.3, I think, you know, I was starting at 10 by 100 on 130 and I was able to hit, you know, one 120 119

By and this was probably a month and a half. There’s maybe even two months into into swimming when I started doing Um changes sets instead of uh, justin

So yeah by the time I got to new hampshire, I think I had I had done 10 by 100 on 130 coming in on 115 Um, and so then my coach moved the interval down to 125 so I think I was still doing 10 on 125 It uh, maybe 12 going into main. Um, and then I sort of asked

Just give it give me just put me up to 20. I know you’re gonna give me 20 eventually. Don’t give me 12 15 18 20 Like just I want to go to 20 now and if I don’t complete the set, like I don’t really care if I miss the interval um and So it was kind of it was a big breakthrough when I was able to do 20 on 125 all at 115 or under Um, and so that was So I guess within the last three months I’ve gone from You know just getting to 20 on 125 uh to now 112 coming in for for on average Geez and is this this is uh yards for me. Yeah, yeah, short course yards. Yeah, short course yards I’d be in it. I’d feel a lot better That’s everyone on youtube always asks is this yards or meters? I’m like

If it was made as you um, you know, you’d be you’d be Uh, well up there at the moment, but I mean that said, you know one 112s in in yards and leaving on 125 with Eight nine months of swimming like it’s that’s good. So it’s uh, it sounds like it’s really come along What what feels different to you? What does it feel like now when used to mean compared to earlier?

Um, I I’d feel like I have a little bit more

Feel you know since I started swimming and especially, you know, Lionel is like mantra That he’s gotten from Justin is feel the water. Um, and so that’s the first like The first sort of thing I was exposed to

And so I uh, I can kind of tell

When I’m having a not necessarily a good or a bad day, but like there’s this weird when I

Start to swim harder, you know after after the warm-up we’re doing a prep set

Like I can feel myself catching. I can feel a lot a lot better rhythm with my kick Actually having the the focus to kick through the whole set, which was a big issue for me I would like kick a little bit And my kick wasn’t great anyway, but I would just sort of stop kicking once I got tired

I I don’t know a lot of it is kind of like hard to put into words. I just feel

there there are a lot of Form changes that we made as I mentioned on that video like I can feel myself rotating. I can feel myself, you know, sort of reaching forward and actually catching instead of just pushing my arm down

I can feel My my entry I used to go like way far forward and now it’s like my recovery into the entry feels a little bit more relaxed

I wouldn’t say I was ever like muscling the water But I feel like I’m gliding a lot more now like instead of just complete stops In between strokes like if I’m sort of leaving my my handout in front of me for for a hot second before starting to catch I feel like I’m still moving whereas before I My stroke rate was so high because I wasn’t gliding pretty much at all. So

I guess the the short answer is I’ve watched enough of your videos that I can feel like How to swim properly like I understand what it feels like to swim properly just from

Trying them my coach on deck confirming that I’m doing it right or whatever I’m doing looks good and being able to you know, just Transfer that through the whole set

You know, and again, I’m not I’m not focusing on What the time ends up being too much. I’m just trying to swim with proper technique for as long as much of the set as I can yeah Which is and that’s that’s perfect because it’s I mean, it’s for me. It’s finding that balance between Obviously, you’ve got to work hard. You’ve got to build your fitness and your strength And it’s good to get to that point of fatigue Where you start to break down and it’s okay to go into that sometimes But if you do it too much and you’re training the wrong technique, then okay, that’s not that’s not ideal So going into it a bit. Maybe you might have a few laps here and there where it’s like, okay That’s that’s really starting to fall apart. It’s a good point to get to but the fact that you just focused on drilling in that technique I mean you you look at some of the Elite swimmers the competitive swimmers and it’s just all about holding technique under fatigue and under pressure

And if you look at like a even 100 freestyle, it’s typically who can hold their Technique that last 10 or 15 meters because as soon as that goes then you you see them drop off So it doesn’t matter if it’s 100 meters or if it’s You know 1.9 kilometer race. It’s it’s it’s all the same So what how did you go about making some changes or improvements to your technique? It was obviously focusing on it when you’re swimming. We’re doing drills. We’re doing any sort of like I know

I was speaking to Dave Tilbury Davis on a recent podcast and he and Justin’s name came up And he was talking about a good like stroke rate set that he got from Justin It sounds like Justin’s got some really good ideas on On how to build that awareness and that feel for the water. Is there some things that you picked up from him?

No, honestly

What and I was only I was only working with Justin for you know, two two and a half months Um, he basically took the approach of you’ve never you’ve never swam before so just don’t muscle the water and Like you just need to get some some fitness onto you right now He didn’t uh, there were a couple things that like my arm was crossing over pretty bad um And he was like hey, you’re you know, he pointed it out and was like try to fix that but he wasn’t um Like hammering me like hey, you’re you’re still doing that wrong. You need to fix it. Um So the the process of Changing my technique really started when I came back to New Hampshire, which and that was the whole reason I came back is I I um Had been told enough and I felt like I had seen enough that I if I want to be the best I need to have perfect technique, you know I the difference for me in this sport is going to be can I can I swim front pack? um Because there are guys who can pretty much run and bike as well or better than I can who are also swimming front pack

so if I want to compete I had to swim front pack and um I truly believe that that starts with having just really really good technique and so my coach James is is all about that and uh Pretty much every day. He was just like here. Okay, uh, well to start like these are the things you need to work on And every single day, um, he would tell me hey, you’re you’re slipping your arms still crossing over or when you get tired your arms still crossing over or um You know, you’re not really rotating at all. So I mean so the crossover that was just to fix it while you’re swimming no drills, but like rotating would do lots of lots of just side swim and six kick switch Stuff like that. So there were there were drills But a lot of it was just hey pointed out feel how to do it correctly and just try to make the change while you’re swimming um, and then I sort of took it upon myself Because I I’ve always just wanted to do more when I was just running

um You know, I bumped my own mileage up to 110 You know, I peaked at my biggest week with 113 miles and um, I was like, well, if I want to be great at running I’ve got to be running 105 to 110 miles a week. Um, So, you know, what what James was having me do wasn’t enough So I would do, uh, you know ankle stretches where I where I try to sit on my feet Um for basically as long as I can so I can you know reduce the drag from just having a you know L shaped uh ankle And like shoulder stretches like, you know, putting I don’t know if people are going to be able to see it But just like all right, how can I get the most like dramatic catch? It felt like it was um limited by my shoulder flexibility So I’d just do that at night and then I started sort of making my own drill sets from Videos I would watch like catch kick was just I was just going back and forth just one arm in front of me kicking um switching off and uh

Um do a lot of uh fingertip drag just to to work on my entry So a lot of it was started with just trying to correct it while I’m swimming and Now it’s definitely a mix of both. I I do a lot of drills. I try to do drills Pretty much at some point Every day, you know, either on my warm-up or on the cool down um But yeah, so it was a mix of you know, James pointing something out and just trying to fix it on the go and um learning what it feels like by doing a drill and then Um, that gives me a little bit more of an ability to fix it myself while I’m swimming Without necessarily having someone there to tell me I’m doing it, right?

Yeah, and with the so you’ve got a go pro Had we’re using that as a reference for how you were swimming as well Was there much that you sort of did with your own looking at your stroke that way? Uh Sometimes yeah, so I James would take we take a lot of footage and you know, he’ll he’ll do video analyses for us And honestly, it’s great. I wish I could I could pull it off Maybe I can send it to you after but basically what what happened was this was it had been a while between

Video sessions and this was kind of when I really started hammering like basically catch drills because I was just like I need to have a great catch and Uh, so I had I had fixed a lot of the the stuff that James said was was kind of having me work on like that The arm wasn’t crossing over very much. Unless I was getting tired Um, I would like lift my head up really high before I was breathing But basically he watched the video and he’s like hey, I hadn’t I hadn’t watched this so we’re just going to analyze it live Um, and he was like astounded at He said my catch was it was too dramatic He’s like you don’t even need to go need to go that far because I basically wanted to get them You know the sun yang like 90 degrees All the way, you know elbow just in front of my head and then forearm completely vertical So like I had been trying to swim like that um For a while and so I was uh, I guess swimming easy and trying to really practice my catch when he was taking the video

um So, uh But yeah, we do we do, uh, you know video analysis, uh Somewhat often, you know every few weeks or Uh, yeah, four to six weeks something like that. Um to sort of pick on things to work on

But yeah, a lot of it a lot of it is just Um Like I’ll do something and just sort of had James confirm. Does this look good? You know, I don’t not not that I even need to work on it or to look at it because I sort of trust him Just tell me that it looks good and I’m like, okay. I can feel it. I’ll just keep doing that Um, you know, so for uh for something like my my entry on my Right arm. I’m still sort of entering too far and it’s causing causing some other issues later on in the stroke

So I watched a video you made about like feeling out proper entry and you’re like a fingertip drag That’s a great drill. So I started doing it. I was like, okay. Now I completely understand how this feels And basically didn’t even need to look at what it looked like Um, and then James ended up confirming like, okay. Yeah, that looks better and it’s you know fixing that that sort of issue You’re having later on Yeah, that’s that’s it’s interesting about the catch because I’ve had a couple summers that I’ve worked with where They’re focused on the catch and trying to get that perfect 90 degree position but as you were saying like it’s It’s not as strong when you’re there and at faster speeds, particularly for the open water Like you’re not you’re better off having a faster rating and less of a high elbow But the fact that you can actually get there is a good thing because you can always reduce how much you’re doing it

So, um, it must be pretty good to see that change after after working on it And it’d be great to see some of those if you’ve got them some of those like earlier videos And compare them as you’ve improved over time That’s why I wanted to jump on a podcast first Before doing like a youtube video just to sort of see what this process has been like for you

Yeah, no, I think I there’s definitely a lot of older footage out there Um, and it’s for some of it’s like kind of painful to watch it was honestly Um, I’m just now getting to the point where I don’t mind watching myself swim um, but for The first I don’t know seven months. It’s been like four to one or two months That I I’ve been able to watch videos of myself and say oh, I like I like the way that looks But for the first, you know, seven months, I would see a video and be like man, that’s like that’s what I look like

And it’s very hard to understand What I’m doing that ends up looking the way it does like for kind of a long time

I was I was almost like snaking my way across the pool. I don’t know if that’s a common thing that you’ve seen but You know my my legs would sort of just sway back and forth and I would Like splay my legs apart because it you know, I felt like I needed to balance myself out when I was trying to rotate um So yeah, things like that like a super wide kick and obviously the the uh crossover um, you know, it was like some pretty dramatic crossover at times in my arms that just Uh, and then the lifting my head to breathe thing There were just a lot of little things that once I knew what what it was supposed to look like I was like, man, I can’t believe that’s what I look like Um, but again, it’s still sometimes really hard to feel what is making it look like that

Yeah, gotcha Well, it’s what I found In the last couple years as I was doing more analysis and more analysis like it when I first looked at I’ve got I’m like I’ve got no idea what I’m really looking for here when I first started filming people and analyzing it And then just the more you do it you Pick up more and And I I’ve you know similar for watching if I’ve ever recorded myself like the first video though I looked out of myself I was like there’s no way like that’s what I look like because I thought again I thought I thought I thought I thought I was perfect And I’ve swum since I was a kid and all of that and I look at and get oh man There’s a lot that I can work on here But it’s for me I found it just it’s really motivating to see those things that you need to change because then if you actually know What you need to to improve on every that just gets me to the pool that much easier Because I’m motivated to get in and work on it

So that’s why I think and I don’t do that much video analysis because it’s hard to find someone to record me sometimes but It’s yeah when I do it. It’s like yeah, okay This is this is great because I can see maybe there’s half a second or a second here per hundred if I can just improve This aspect of my catch and it’s actually and what I say to the people when they come to our clinics is like The people who are the worst swimmers they’re like oh my god I can’t believe I look that way But it’s like how you should be happy because you’ve got the most room for improvement And you know, there’s some people there who are looking for half a second Well, you know, you can find 10 or 20 or sometimes 30 seconds per hundred So the worse you look the more Yeah, the more improvement there is which is a good thing in a way. Well, so I’m actually curious. I got a question for you um, and I have no idea if you would be able to to even give an estimate uh from

Just watching that that one video But um When I was you know, swimming, you know these threshold sets So 115 116 um, and now I feel like I’ve changed A crap ton of things with my form. It just everything sort of feels better and um I’m I’m still swimming 112, you know, we’re talking four four seconds a hundred um, and I’m getting some fitness and but

Like if I If I woke up with uh, completely flawless technique, um

How how much faster like do you think there is to go, you know, like how much is it? um For me at this point or for somebody who has, you know decent There’s a lot of things I can fix that that would add up like you said half a second here a second there um Like are there 12 seconds per hundred worth of things that I can fix that have nothing to do with fitness Or is it more like okay, that’s four or five but getting down to say hitting double lows on a threshold set that’s going to be mostly fitness or You know 50 50 like how how would you how would you estimate, you know, what it takes to get to swimming double lows?

Yeah, gotcha Definitely a combination of both because if you think of this the swim speed equation you’ve got your distance per stroke and then the rate at which you’re taking those strokes and so a good way to a good way to Kind of boil it down is you can see how many stroke strokes it’s taking you at the moment per 25 And then and the rate at which you’re taking them. So, you know, sometimes you get it from your garment or Recording it whatever whatever it is And then you can you can look at it and I think it’s good to play around with those Numbers as well. So let’s say Okay, it’s a 25-yard pool. You’re pushing off for it’s called five yards and so you’re swimming for for 20 yards Let’s say you’re taking 20 strokes. So you’re moving one yard per stroke. Just throwing numbers out there And then let’s say your stroke rate is is one stroke a minute. So one stroke a second So you’ve got a rating of 60 strokes a minute

So if you sort of put those two numbers side by side, you can increase the stroke rate a little bit or You know increase how far you’re traveling each stroke in that way You can sort of figure out what needs to happen to get down to that minute mark Because you know that it’ll basically spit out what you’re currently doing with a with a 112 Obviously, you’ve got the turns and the push-offs and stuff, but

Yeah, and so that’s that’s a way to sort of figure it out So it’d be if I was to look at it It’d be good to record like a just a 112 if you’re swimming in that 2100 set see what that looks like Get your stroke count get your stroke rate and then sort of play around with it So it’s definitely going to be a combination of both because if I don’t know your stroke Your stroke rate would typically be in that kind of set

Uh, I had no idea that’s something I’ve never paid attention to actually

Do you have a um, do you wear a garment or anything? No, I don’t I don’t I don’t have like a swim a swim capable watch so Yeah, and I I don’t think I don’t think that’s a bad thing like I prefer to go Usually no gear sometimes I wear the form goggles for like a longer set But there’s nothing wrong with not going any gear that would potentially give you a half decent reading for what your stroke rate is But if you record if you had a hundred recorded We could just I could use like us we could you can time it basically and and figure it out from there So, yeah to have a and then we can do this. I mean you’re racing next week So we don’t want to change anything but it’d be good just to record a hundred About that pace and just see see what the numbers spit out and go from there Because there’s a good chance of stroke rates going to be one of those things Well, like at a 10 percent increasing stroke rate. So going from 60 strokes a minute to 66

Yeah, that’s that’s gonna play around a fair bit with you with your eventual speed if you were to hold the same Distance that you’re doing each stroke. So yeah, that’s how I’d kind of look at it I think that’d be a good exercise to to do

After you after your race

Yeah, no, absolutely. That’s something I mean um, and does that so And if the stroke rate is good, then you say, okay, I must be Producing too much drag and then it comes back to form or is it?

Yeah, I mean, I guess that that’s that that’s probably just a Something something I need to look at and again, there’s that’s one of the things I love about swimming is there’s there are so many Like angles to to attack it from and right now it’s sort of just been okay. We’re working on my fitness and we’re trying to to make You know, so I would say minor technique changes. Um, just to straighten things out and um

Like looking at it from uh from like an analytic perspective like that Okay, how how many strokes am I taking and how far am I getting for each stroke? That’s something that people have commented on on youtube videos where and that’s something I never listened to either When someone comments on a youtube video I want it I want it from somebody like from somebody I trust like Um, so that’s I know you need to work on distance per stroke and I’m like Of course, I need to work on this like wouldn’t be great if I was just getting more distance every stroke like that I don’t know. I guess that requires more, you know more fitness more um the ability to put pull back harder. Um, but yeah, just

Approaching it from uh Almost a mathematical perspective. Um, that’s definitely something I’m gonna do now because I I had never like heard of doing that

Yeah, let’s and look at you. I think you’re so right like first of all Some of the comments I see on the youtube on my youtube channel like uh, like like I’d say 90 90 95 percent of them are great Uh, and then there’s five or 10 percent where I just look at it and go. Oh my god. You couldn’t be more wrong Like just on like on maybe what a swimmer’s doing or what they should focus on Uh, I just go. Oh my god. I hope this I hope no one sort of listens to that that advice So yeah, it’s uh, I take everything with with a grain of salt but Uh, and like I think when people say like someone says you need to work on your catch. It’s like, okay Well, that’s great. It’s really a throwaway comment. I was like, what do I need to to do? Like what’s how do you go about it and distance per stroke? Like there’s so much that goes into it because it’s it’s just a combination of your Like your drag how much drag you’re creating and then the the propulsion like it’s it’s those two things

And so with the drag often it’s body position your feet kicking out Maybe entering in the wrong spot and then propulsion is like your kick your catch and then just working that together And and syncing it up together. Well, so yeah, there’s so much to to work on but it’s it’s good to keep it simple And it sounds as though you’ve had that approach and I think that’s why you’ve probably Made such good progression alongside obviously doing the work and Yeah, and training hard Like it’s yeah, I think that’s it’s a good way to go because I see people just they get they take on so much and then they’ll It’s like a bright shiny object. They’ll hear something and then go, okay I’m going to work on that but they already know what they need to work And they sometimes get distracted with the wrong thing that might not even be relevant to them So it’s very easy to to do that and I’m mindful of that when I do my videos because I know I talk about lots of stuff

But you know, really it’s like half the stuff’s not going to be relevant relevant for the person watching Uh, it’s because yeah, something else might be more important Yeah, and I mean that’s the the comment I made in in my latest video was I as you know, we made a lot of changes We’re not planning. I’m making too many more. I didn’t mean that as far as oh my my technique is is very near flawless There’s more so like we’ve made a lot of a lot of changes that I’m not used to And I can’t hold them all the way through a set So like there’s no reason to bring to to point out any other changes And it’s like, you know, the video you sent me said, you know, my my arm’s swinging out wide Like maybe that is something my coach had already noticed and he said well, it’s not it’s not worth it to

To bring that up to have him even be thinking about it

You know, it’s it’s it’s more important for for me to Uh focus on the things that I am sort of able to focus on, you know, just my my mind can only Sort of control so many things at once And just totally ingrain them so that they they become just, you know, muscle memory And then once I feel like okay, I’m I’m swimming naturally now like through a whole threshold set with

Technique that I only used to be able to sort of force when I’m swimming easy when I’m really really focusing on All right, keeping my arms straight keeping my head down. I’m, you know kicking with good rhythm and you know, I’m rotating Once that just becomes completely natural then I’ll say okay, what’s Where is the half second per hundred or second per hundred that I’m, you know, leaving on the table now

Yeah, that’s that’s right. And that’s why I was like, uh, I don’t want to give you because Said you’re not trying to change too much. It’s like, uh, like and That’s why I mentioned to you like your stroke looks looks good. And I was really I was really impressed with how it looked

Having known that you sort of just started swimming recently, but only nine months ago Like you’ve done done a great job. And it’s uh Yeah, it’s the strikes looking good. So I was I was really impressed with that and uh, I mean like I’m excited to see What the next six to twelve months brings for you because Yeah, like for someone who hasn’t come from that background a lot of things you’re doing really nicely So um, I thought that was good, especially with the catch as well like that That takes a while to develop. So I was quite surprised how good your your catch was under the water And I mentioned that left arm was drifting out a little bit

Again, it’s like we just focus on what we can focus on for now. So Yeah, did you feel like you’re holding Do you feel like do you feel like you’re holding better water? Then you’re used to with that with the catch. Does it feel better? Uh, oh, yeah Absolutely, and that’s uh, I was I was saying earlier when I start to swim Faster or harder after warm-up. There’s this like Again, I can’t I almost can’t explain it, but it’s like when I’m warming up. I’m just I want to say sloppy But I’m not really I’m not really trying to go fast I’m just swinging my arms around getting the yards in and then um, on most of our sets We have a prep set four by hundred on 140 So I’ll I’ll typically start in the you know, 118 And then progress down to you know, now I can sometimes on a good day when I’m feeling good I can go I I’ll hit a 108 on the last one. Um, but it’s like that first one and I’m probably swimming 124s, you know, maybe around that range while I’m warming up and then so I start going to 118. I’m like I

I feel like I’m Catching water, you know, like I’m pushing water back like purely just backwards

It’s the way the way it like goes around my arm and the way I’m actually propelling myself forward Um was that that was a change. I only really started to to Feel when I started working on my catch So I guess hold water is a that’s a phrase. I’ve only heard a couple of times and definitely a very like swim swim specific term but I guess that pretty accurately describes the the feeling Of you know, I’m catching while I’m I’m pushing it backwards and I think it kind of comes down to like I understand how to move myself Forward now. I can’t always do it perfectly Um, and I don’t have the fitness to do it really hard for a really long time Um, but I’m really just starting to understand what it feels like

Yeah, that’s it’s good to hear and I’ve heard like I think I think it’s Brett Sutton has he said He he doesn’t like the term feel for the water because he reckons he’s seen two Triathletes ever that have had feel for the water, but it’s just a relative term like You’re you doing what you’re doing now compared to what you’re doing eight months ago Like now you’ve got a much better feel for the water So it’s just a it depends how you interpret the term and I I like it like it is you do actually feel it on your hand on your forearm When you get a good catch and it’s the feedback I get all the time when people make a good change to their to their catch and pull so I I think it’s important and to hold that water and keep pressure on it because A lot of times people will use that catch part as like the power power phase too much Like what you might have been doing in the beginning said you’re pushing down a lot on the water

And so all the force is going down and maybe you’re going too hard in the beginning But it should be this gradual build up of pressure through it So the catch yes, you need some pressure But you don’t want to muscle it too too much in the beginning You just want to gradually sort of build it up because Otherwise, it’s just you’re moving too fast too hard and then you lose that that pressure So it should be this this exhalation through the stroke and it’s that that’s this finessing that I think It comes with more experience and just figuring out what what works and it sounds as though it’s really come along well with you Yeah, well, I mean that’s interesting that you said Brett said that he’s only seen like two triathletes who can You know really feel for the while. I’m not sure what that means, but I I take it I take it pretty literally um In terms of the first time you get in the water and you don’t have a swim background

Like, you know, I didn’t even know what was what was going on around me There’s so much stimulus And I’m just trying to move myself through it. But now, you know, probably millions of strokes later

I One of one of the technique things that we changed was my palm would I don’t know if this was like a soft hands thing where I was I was too tense But my palm would sort of start to come up like you would if you were looking at a face like a Front-on video of me coming towards the camera

Just at like head level you’d be able to see my palm right before I start catching

And now I can it’s Maybe I still sometimes do it again when I’m when I’m getting tired and you know I try not to tense up but sometimes it happens But I can quite literally feel the water hitting my palm when I do it now Because it’s something I become like so attuned to to try not to do it

that Yeah, when I when I go in and my my wrist is cocked upwards a little bit like I literally can feel the water on my palm So I I don’t know if people say feel the water to mean literally or it’s some

I don’t know extra awareness that you have after doing it for a decade plus being in the water every single day But I think there’s definitely a literal component to it. Um, yeah, I’m I’m starting to get

Yeah, absolutely. And I think it should be should be taken that way

Yeah, it said I like what you said about the sort of soft hands because I’ve got that term from a guy Wayne Goldsmith who I’ve learnt quite a bit from and it’s like it’s that point of just enough tension to hold the form But you don’t need anymore because anymore is wasted and it’s kind of like if you were to go pick up a Glass you’re not like grabbing it really tight where you could crush it You’re just picking it up where the hands sort of stay soft I think it’s a similar thing when you when you’re swimming it’s that yeah finessing of it because when you’re relaxed you move better And particularly I think through the catch and pull you just feel it so much better when you are Relaxed as well. And it’s something that I see quite a bit like a lot of swimmers are so like they’re like this And they’re just trying to like, you know, cut their hands or hold as much water as they can but it’s um, they they burn out

You know, they just 50 hundred meters in you just can’t hold it that much Oh for that long with that kind of tension three or four arms and hands Yeah, absolutely. I mean there’s um

This I mean it’s your whole channel effortless swimming and everybody everybody said, you know, it should be it should be smooth Um, and I’m getting this it’s actually really frustrating is I can

Uh, I can swim faster when I’m Bilaterally breathing breathing every third stroke instead of every other when I’m breathing to one side Um, and I can’t quite figure it out. But when I I only breathe to one side when I’m swimming hard like during a threshold set Um, and for one it feels way less balanced than every third stroke where I’m where I’m switching sides Um, but it’s sort of at the point where I’m so relaxed Breathing every third stroke and it feels like there’s so much more symmetry and I can I can just I feel the water better um where Uh, I’m not literally swimming faster But it’s like the effort it takes me to swim 115 breathing bilaterally versus swimming 115

Breathing to one side is like almost the same even though I’m getting You know 150 of the breaths, which is still for me in the early stages. It’s so huge, you know, because my breath control um and co2 resistance is uh

Has been sort of an issue more so than uh fatigue is just like I can’t breathe And that that becomes one of the biggest issues. But um, I don’t know if it’s because I I’m just more relaxed breathing to both sides and

Or if it’s a symmetry thing, I don’t have you ever have you ever seen that but it’s I’m swimming Um, this morning I swam, you know 112 in the third hundred of that prep set and then I swam 112 in the fourth one swimming way harder breathing to one side

Gotcha, so just the Yeah, I mean if you can if you can sustain every three then go every three if it’s if it’s easier and Have you done much open water swimming? Like practice lately, uh, not not lately not since Uh, it’s been over a month. Um, it’s just been way too cold our last open water swim It was like 55 degrees in the water and it was everybody was like, please like let’s Let us out those. Um, yeah

Um, but we were good to say

Yeah, gotcha and we were more comfortable breathing every three in the open water or every two. Oh, oh, yeah, yeah every three I’m just I I always feel yeah, yeah more comfortable to breathe in every three

Cool. Yeah, but it’s it’s just not enough. It just feels like not enough oxygen almost You know, I can’t I can’t swim hard doing that. It just builds up too quickly Hmm Yeah, gotcha um Because what what it may eventually what may eventually happen is over the next couple of months six to twelve months You might be able to hold your same distance per stroke and increase your rating So the arms are going over a bit quicker, which means it’s going to be Every breathing every three it might be enough air for you because it’s going to be less of a gap between taking a breath So that might be like the optimum goal in the long run But I think it’s look it can be good to practice and there’s no hard and fast rules for what you need to do Like you could do and actually what what I will sometimes do and I assume in a 50 meter pool But I’ll do like breathing every two off the wall for the first like four or six strokes

And then go to every three and then into the wall I’ll breathe like every two for the last five meters just to get a bit more air because it’s the turns that normally tire you out And especially coming off the wall It’s like it’s when you need a you need a bit more air in so it could be worth doing like Yeah, two two and then threes all the way down and you might breathe the two into the water to get some air Coming to that’s really interesting. You bring that up because that’s um one Kind of big thing like I don’t I don’t ever ever swim with a pole buoy um when I started uh when I got to New Hampshire, um my coach said every time I give In the set I say, you know pull buoy plus paddles or whatever anytime I say pull buoy You swim with fins and so for the past You know six months instead of pulling I swim with fins because um again, there was that ankle flexibility like I just had the worst ankle mobility

um And I just wasn’t kicking and so I guess partly the fins are like a reminder You should be kicking use them try to go fast but they it uses it’s Like there’s so much more oxygen being consumed because I because I’m kicking and because the fins

Provide more resistance. So kicking is It’s faster, but it’s like it’s just harder. Um It’s always harder for me to just swim For me to swim, you know fins and paddles than it is to just swim normally Or swimming with a pull buoy for that matter So I when I I’m supposed to sort of be swimming steady, which one we’re swimming just easy. It’s You know coach has us swimming every or breathing every third stroke But I just like it builds up too quickly. So I pretty much do exactly what you said I take two off the wall And then I switch and then going back into the wall. I take, you know, I Every other again And that’s a bit more sustainable, but I’ve just I never thought about doing that When I just swim normally because in my mind, I’m so like you’re supposed to be breathing every three and Um Yeah, I don’t know. Yeah, like I’ll play like that It feels like cheating when I take a when I take a breath every other

Yeah, it’s it’s fine. I was talking about this exact same thing with my Sister this morning who was talking about a friend of hers who sort of just started swimming and often we take these These things like you got to breathe bilaterally. You got to breathe every three We take them and be like that’s gospel. I’m not really shouldn’t breathe every two But there’s there’s no rules for it and it’s okay to to mix it up. I mean Sun Yang in his 1500 where he broke the world record. He breathed I can’t remember exactly, but it was like it was

Off the wall. I think he went like left right left. So he breathed like every stroke And then he went to twos and then I think at halfway He might have done like a maybe a three and then he started breathing to the other side and then into the wall He’d go he breathed three strokes for each stroke into the wall. So it was right left right into the wall Something along those lines. So yeah, and so there’s no coach that will say I want you to breathe like each stroke Because it’s like, you know, it’s not the right thing to do but you know, there’s there’s always exceptions. So And I do that in my sort of longest longer distance sets is if I’m getting tired Maybe I will go like a left right into the wall and no, it’s not the best thing in the world to do But for longer distance, it’s you’re better off getting the air in so it’d be good to mix it up and Yeah, you could play around with that just to You know give yourself a few more options

So it’d be interesting to see If that if that helps and look yes, it’s good to train like that breath control But sometimes when you just you know try to Sustain a time for like that threshold set. You I’d say you’re probably better off just doing the two two three three and so on

And I mean I feel like I’ve gotten an entire a Free coaching session for the you know the past 50 minutes by coming on coming on this podcast Yeah, I’ll look I look I love I love helping people with their swimming because For me, it’s like I just I love swimming and I’m just I really enjoy Um, the technical side of it I love going in there and doing it and like I come out of the water and just feel You know so good about it and the more people that I can sort of help with that I think the the better and for me like Yeah, if I was to Looking six or 12 months down the track to um to see you just continually improving your swimming like I’d get a real real kick out of it so that’s why I I enjoy doing this sort of stuff and um yeah, so it’s If there is anything along the way as well that um, yeah, you ever would like some um

An opinion on or anything. I’d be happy to help and I know I’ve gone for a while here and we’ve only talked about um swimming because obviously it’s a swimming channel, um, but I was Curious about your YouTube stuff as well. Like it looks like you’ve gained quite a a large following there and like what do you

What do you sort of put that down to to to have that following grow in the last nine months? Uh

I use the term clout siphoning. Um, so my my, uh It’s not all that I gotta give myself some credit, but um my one of my best friends I was living with I would be surprised if you had found his channel. He’s got a youtube channel called the athlete special and it’s um It’s it’s a running youtube channel. He’s had it for Years, I don’t know six six years at this point. It’s got 65,000 subscribers so I was living with him um for You know the better part of a year and I was in all the videos and like started to uh Make a name for myself just from being in the videos Uh, and so when I started my own channel, um, he was just like I already started a channel and like Day one three thousand people like subscribed basically um just just from People knowing me from from his channel Um, and then it you know, it felt like it grew pretty organically because it wasn’t it wasn’t all runners coming over There were people who you know cyclists triathletes

um, who didn’t know who Spencer was who uh, uh For a while, I just completely assumed that everybody who subscribed was a previous subscriber of spencer Um, and there’s people I’ve met along the way that just they were like, I have no idea who that is I you know discovered you a long time ago. Um and then uh Going to Tucson and like being in videos with Lionel and having Lionel in my videos Literally doubled doubled the subscribers just because of like the amount of exposure that he has Um, so those were like two

Big jumps, you know, they I would imagine accounted for you know, at least half of the subscribers Maybe more that I have just in terms of exposure that people like uh, that that’s where I was discovered. Um, so I definitely had a lot of a lot of help, um as far as like Being able to have uh being a good position for people to discover me um So that’s uh, you know, I don’t know that I’m Doing anything really special with the videos. I make I make my own music for them. Um, which is not like, uh, I don’t Like publicize that every video. Um, I get a lot of comments like what’s this song? And but you know, I just try to make it like a

Uh It’s not like a running youtuber a triathlon youtube. It’s like a me youtube, you know, I talk about I love I love espresso. I love Um, I love making music. I love endurance sports. So I’m just I just make videos essentially about myself

And uh Yeah, I guess, you know, I’ve been in a fortunate position to have a lot of eyes On me through like different people that I’ve trained with basically

Yeah, yeah, it’s cool. It’s um, uh, and I mean You are your own like easiest topic to make videos about actually like you whatever you’re interested in You know, you can make a video for it. So it’s um, yeah, it’s it’s a good approach And I think just from reading some of the comments like I think they’re Just the openness, you know, they’re willing to share like the the ups and downs and all of that That’s that’s a big factor And I think that’s why people like liners videos and I like sam longs videos and stuff because they’re just willing to share Share everything. Um, which I which you know, which is people don’t want someone who’s just like pretends It sort pretends that it’s all, you know, rainbows. It’s it’s hard work along the way. So Um, I think that that can certainly help too and the how do you how do you find it doing that like sharing? You know, I’d say whatever it might be 90 of what’s what’s going on. You know, how do you how do you

Find that compared to being someone who’s Not publishing it and just you know going and training and everything. Do you do you prefer it? Do you Like it at times and not others like how do you find that part of it? No, I don’t I don’t I don’t mind it at all. Honestly, it’s like I for most of my life I was just not really sharing anything and doing nothing But it was like but people close to me or people not even that close to me I feel like I’ve always said what’s on my mind. I’ve been a pretty open book Um, you know never tried to make things seem like Something they were not And so it feels very natural. Just Like when I decide the film will work out It’s like it’s I’m making a video regardless of how the workout went

Like I don’t even know how I would like just That would kind of be unfortunate if someone Scrapped a video that they were already planning on making because the workout went poorly

That’s just it’s never like really an option that that crossed my mind Um, and then especially just how much, you know early on People appreciate the the openness Makes it that much easier to To keep sharing and not it was like even if everyone was like, hey man, shut up. Nobody cares like I would still I would still keep doing it

And like there was this there’s this Girl I met a couple weeks ago. I was like, oh, I love your channel

You’re helping toggle toxic masculinity like because there was that seat I don’t know if you watch the the first 70.3. I did I was just like crying after the race Um And uh, I don’t care. It’s like that’s yeah, that’s what happened. I was extremely emotional and upset Um for and you know crazy stuff happens when you’ve been really really pushing yourself for three and a half hours four hours um But yeah, people people really really appreciate seeing it. So it does make it even easier to like um, my friend Johnny who who helped make that video like you Uh, he was he said he was too scared to take the camera out, but I was just like sitting there really upset I was like take the action camera out because I knew I knew I like needed to um Just say what was on my mind and a lot of it is for me to go back and really like that’s what I was thinking Like I can’t believe I said that you know any second. I’ll watch that scene like I

Like it makes me uncomfortable to watch it as I’m sure a lot of other people felt that way But that’s the truth like that’s those are the things I said. That’s what I was thinking in that moment um, and that’s kind of the whole point of Having a youtube channel is like you can go I can go back and say this is what I was swimming there This is what I said and thought about that workout right after I did it. This is what I thought the next day um This is what I thought about everything You know six months 12 months later, uh, so it’s uh It’s like it’s like a training log and it just it wouldn’t be It wouldn’t be of any use to me if I wasn’t honest honest Yeah, yeah, exactly. It’s great. It’s it’s like it’s like a training Diary that you know, you can look back on and just uh and see how you’re feeling how certain sets went and and like it sometimes like I try and stay away from the comments and and stuff but like I mean

Most people on who commented my videos are like they’re great. Um, so I don’t I don’t sort of mind it too much But it’s um and even if someone said like you know why posting this no one cares It’s like well all right Why are you watching it like there’s a lot of options out there for you and no one’s forcing you to watch this so just uh, you know, you do your own thing and um Yeah, and and the people who enjoy it will will continue to watch it and you know with that honesty stuff like it’s um Yeah, like I I’m probably I’d say I’m probably more reserved than than what you are mine’s more just like it’s swimming It’s not necessarily my life and stuff But I remember a couple years ago when um good friend of mine and somebody who worked with me in the business here young guy He passed away and I hadn’t posted videos hadn’t posted podcasts for a while because I was just not in the mood And I put out this short podcast about why just explained that he’d he’d passed away and the amount of emails and support

I got back um From from people was like it was amazing and I think you know when you are when you are honest about that sort of stuff Like people will um You know they they feel like they’re better connected to you. They have a better understanding of what you Of you and what you might be going through. So it’s um, yeah, it’s it can be a good thing to to share. So Yeah, I don’t know if you had he had come across this video The video the video is just called life is hard. Um, and uh, so my sister passed away about about a year ago and um, I had I was literally like finished with a video The day before she died and I found out and then a couple days later. I was like Well, I still have this video and I’ve committed to making this like youtube. It would be weird I feel like it would be weird if I didn’t Say something like if I just kept making videos and pretended it didn’t happen and like so I just I started the video

And I was like, hey, this is what happened. I don’t I don’t know what the hell’s happening going forward But I made this video a couple days ago. I don’t really care to like actually finish it But here’s just some clips would be running and like that’s the video And just yeah, the amount of people that were like the screw making videos like, you know, you know, you don’t Oh anything to us and the people who were just like, I’m you know, sorry for your loss like it was overwhelming Just like I felt this sense of community on youtube of all places so Yeah, again, it just comes back to like It feels so worth it for me to Share, you know as much as much as is appropriate to share. Yeah

Yeah, I agree and it’s like and when you have stuff like that happen it cuts through all the crap of like, you know, like

Just all the like the the divisive um, all the different like tribes and stuff that you know people always going up against each other in News and views and all this sort of stuff It’s like yeah cuts through all of that and it sort of brings people together which um, which seems rare and rarer these days so that’s um Yeah, I’ll just uh I find it it’s nice when that happens and you can sort of forget about all the uh, All the divisiveness that’s uh, that’s happening at the moment. So um, yeah, it’s that’s a small upside Those things can bring people together Yeah, I mean but in Because of that I decided, you know, I gave me this whole, you know different outlook on life Um, so that’s why I quit my job in software and decided I wasn’t quite All in I wasn’t I wasn’t swimming yet. I was I was I was actually swimming like Twice a week, um, but there wasn’t much structured to it. I was mostly just running and biking

Um, so this was like pre-toosan Um, but that’s kind of the reason I was able to just go and start training full time. It’s like, you know, this What most people would think is this horrible thing happened to me and I Um, decided to to take a path that without that having happened. I would probably never have really started swimming What did it made you what did you reflect on that made you quit your job and then take up triathlon like what what was that? Um, the party is like I just I didn’t like my job very much. Um Not that I wasn’t like, oh, I hate my job. I’m unhappy. I want a different job It was like I just wanted to be training like that’s all I ever wanted to be doing Um, that’s all I ever wanted to do in high school and college too, but it was just like, you know I have to get my schoolwork done That sort of thing but then I sort of uh

It made me think do I have to have this job or is there a is there a way forward for me Where I can put all my eggs in this basket and maybe make it happen And so I yeah, I decided I was just going to do it and I yeah, I couldn’t really think about um what I mean, well, what happens if I fail is I end up right where I am now Which is in my childhood bedroom in my parents house, which is not the worst thing, but you know, um, yeah Uh, yeah, I just decided like that. I wasn’t going to wait anymore Uh, you know life is just too short. And uh, if I’m really unhappy doing what I’m doing I’m gonna do what makes me happy. So that that was really the Like I just did what I wanted to do anyway, uh without really thinking about the consequences Yeah, it’s worked out thus far Yeah, that’s great. I mean I was um, I started effortless mean last year university. It was like a sort of project and Um, yes, I started last year university and then fair probably for five or six years

Like I was sort of posting a few videos and sort of it was a slow start with the business and I wasn’t Putting heaps of time into it. I was sort of coaching a squad along alongside it and um, but all like all for me like Since I was 18. I just wanted to be able to Surf when it’s good. I want to be able to swim. I wanted like just be able to sort of do my own thing um, because I I don’t like getting told what to do. So that was like a big motivator for me and um And so like I started effortless mean and was that like had all this free time? And so I ended up surfing more than I probably should have and didn’t get a lot whole lot done But then like just before Um, we’re planning to have a kid my wife said you better you better make something of this because I’m not going to be working soon. You know, you need to actually do something with this business Um, and so that kind of gave me the kick up the ass that I needed and then you know got serious about it

And um, I’m glad I did because it’s like It’s just been so so much better since then like we run a lot of clinics I don’t know if I start maybe like I had just started the podcast then but like all this stuff Came together and it’s like I just I’m so thankful that she With that fire up my ass and um, and that is something that I enjoy doing as well So still able to surf I still get to swim and I get to coach as well And it’s just like yeah, it’s a good combination for me and um, you know I remember being in my last year of uni and when I told I don’t know if it was the Zeta like some of the people in the class So it was like the teacher of the class sort of told them what I was doing I could tell they’re like, okay, like that’s great business idea But like I look back now and I don’t know if there’s any of the businesses that started at university that are still going Um, and yeah, like I’m just glad I didn’t sort of listen to what what their thoughts were on it

So, um, yeah, it’s just like it’s a good motivator to when people don’t think that you can do it and when people yeah Yeah, man. I mean, I don’t know if you’ve read the alchemist. I mean, it’s one of my one of my favorite books

That I just sort of go go back to every now and then but there’s a great There’s a great quote that I I’m not gonna quote it correctly, but it essentially says um Commit to following your dream and the universe will conspire to help you along the way and uh

I mean, it’s just that I mean, there’s almost no there’s no like evidence to back it up Maybe you take a crazy risk. It’s gonna work out. It seems what it’s implying but Somehow it happens that way in a lot of cases, you know, it’s just like I quit my job and then all of a sudden Lionel Sanders, you know, it’s like Come that’s right, right? Like what are the like? What are the odds? What are the odds? Um, it’s sort of like really kick you can’t like kickstart a Triathlon slash youtube career Any better way than that like literally nobody in the world

So just yeah

Yeah, man Yeah, that’s awesome. Oh, it’s yeah I when I look back at all that like it’s just one thing leads to to another and you couldn’t have You couldn’t have planned it that you couldn’t have predicted it But as long as you just sort of keep on the path Things seem to work out and and I’ll look back at I look back at some of the goals I set myself like five six seven years ago and like Pretty much all of them have have happened and it’s like wow, okay It didn’t take a lot longer than I thought but it’s like like it’s all just sort of Planned out not exactly how I thought it was going to happen. But like the end end results there So it’s really cool when when that happens So, yeah, I think that stuff is is great. Well, um, we’ve been going for a while here I so I appreciate the the time jumping on the podcast and Yeah, man Yeah, looking forward to watching your journey over the next couple of years and um, no that will be in touch again

Absolutely. I’ll uh slide into the instagram dm if I need uh Need more drills or uh Some video analysis Yeah, absolutely feel feel free to and good luck for the races this weekend and then enjoy a little bit of downtime after that with with Christmas and a bit of off-season. So, um, yeah, I appreciate you being on the podcast I really enjoyed it. Thank you. Yeah. No, thanks for having me on and uh, Yeah, no, it’s been awesome. It’s uh Great. It’s crazy to just have the the best swimming channel on on youtube just Ask, you know discover me yesterday and I’m on the pod the next day. It’s Yeah

Coming together, it’s uh, yeah, that’s that’s awesome. We’ll uh Yeah, yeah, I’ve I appreciate Ari and that we’ll talk soon. Of course, man. I look forward to uh Thanks for listening to the effortless swimming podcast If you’d like us to help you become a faster more efficient swimmer go to www.effortlesswimming.com