Welcome to episode number 209 of the Effortless Swing podcast my guest today is none other than Phil Clayton And Phil’s was a professional Ironman surf Ironman competitor from 1992 to 2004 and in 2000 He won the world Ironman championships He’s also got a lot of experience as a surf Ironman coach and as a swim coach So he was head coach at Kara surf Club up on the Gold Coast in 2006 to 2013 and also Coach at Burley Head surf Club from 2018 to 2020 and I had a really good chat with Phil his main thing is helping people Get comfortable get experience become better ocean or open water swimmers and Phil and I met a year or two ago now and Love his philosophy really enjoy his outgoing and vibrant personality And I think he’s a real asset to the swim community particularly those that he Coaches and trains up on the Gold Coast So before we get into the episode just want to go through a little bit of housekeeping stuff

I’ve had a lot going on in the last couple of months since pools have opened So there’s a few new things that we’ve got coming out which I’m really excited about so last week I just finished recording our beginner freestyle course. So if you struggle to swim 400 meters without stopping this is going to be for you So our beginner freestyle course will be available in probably the next week or two and it’s going to take you through the basics like breathing and floating Finding your balance kicking all the way to use me your first 400 continuous without stopping So if you are listening to this and you’re finding things are quite difficult at the moment You can’t do 25 or 50 meters then that’s why I created this course So I might let you know once that’s available and it won’t be too far away The other thing that we’ve got coming up and I’ve mentioned this a number of years ago So probably three three years ago when we first started on it

We have got our swim paddle that that we’ve designed Not too far away from being released so we are going to launch it on Kickstarter in order to sort of start that business and currently we’re just sort of filming some of the Videos for the promotional videos that we’re going to use on Kickstarter and it’s a I’m really excited about this It’s been a long time coming But we’re finally at that stage where we’ve got everything lined up in order to produce the paddle And now we’re just getting ready to Start the Kickstarter. So I’ll be dropping some videos here and there once we start to get some footage of it But this is this is essentially designed to help you improve your catch So obviously that’s the most important part of your stroke for most people and it’s designed to move your hands Through through the catch motion Into the right position to get a good high elbow catch So, um, yeah, it’s a it’s a really nice design

Looks good and feels really comfortable So I can’t wait to uh to launch that that’ll be another probably a few months away But um, we’re getting to the final stages of that now And then the the last thing is our eight week faster freestyle course. You might have heard me mention that before That’s now available as an individual course if you’d like to go through that And that’s designed for people who want to find extra speed In their stroke and become a bit more efficient. So I put this eight week course together to have some structure around Developing each part of the stroke. So essentially each week you’ll focus on a different thing and there’s a suggested warm-up and drills to do to Develop your better breathing or body position whatever it might be for that week And then there’s three workouts a week as well if you’d like to go through those But with this kind of structure, it’s going to help incorporate some of these things into your stroke

So if you’ve ever felt confused by what to focus on and if you’re someone who likes structure Then this is the way to go and it works whether you are training by yourself or swimming with the squad There’s ways that you can incorporate this stuff into either sort of program that you’re doing So that’s enough on what we’ve got coming up I just wanted to let you know because i’m excited about some of these final things that have that have come together And uh, let’s get into the podcast with phil

Welcome to the effortless swimming podcast to show that helps swimmers and triathletes love the water Become a better swimmer and live a better life. Here’s your host Brenton Ford Welcome to the effortless swimming podcast. My guest today is phil clayton. Can I feel you? Thanks Brenton? How are you?

Yeah, good. Thank you. I wanted to get you on the podcast Because we met I don’t know if it was a year ago or two years ago. It goes very quickly, but um, you’re You’re a professional swim coach and you work primarily with people in the ocean and your your background is as a surf iron man athlete very A lot of achievements in in that area and also as a as a surf iron man coach and now a lot of swimming And one of the things that I come across with the athletes that I coach is Transferring that speed from the pool Into the open water is a is a different story sometimes. So I thought you would be a great guest to get on and to talk about How people can go about that. So just for the listeners. What’s um, what’s your background in surf iron man and then swim? Um, that’s quite long I started in woolen gong under rick and ron mckayin. Um, I swam with them for quite a few years I then moved into professional iron man series. Um, the uncle toby’s and the kelogs

And moved to the gold coast and then started training under denis cotchwell. Who was my last swim coach there for most of the years Um, from that I competed as a professional athlete for about 15 years and then moved into the industry of surf coaching I was head coach at karawa surf club and just recently finished as head coach at burley heads surf club From that I realized when uh, when covid started that there was a great market for people that actually wanted to jump out and Try open water swimming When all the pools were shut a really close friend of mine ty dalker runs the australia day ocean australia day runs swim event up here in the gold coast And he had just a little group that was doing Early morning training and we combined and we worked together and it took off like a rocket My business has gone from zero to hero and at the moment we’ve got about six different sections It ranges from teaching people how to conquer their fear about getting in the ocean

How to actually read the ocean then I do um swimming in the creek Then we do swim escapes where we just got back from hamilton island with 30 people where we we swim at different locations And then this monday Coming I start my new adult learn to swim in televised a creek, which is I didn’t realize there’s so many people out there one that are afraid of the ocean Two that want to conquer their fear and jump in it that’s free Have never really been taught how to swim and there’s only brought really pools that are available to teach people the basics So my business is growing. We’re having a great time doing it. We’re learning as we go and it’s a lot of fun

Well, it’s such a we were talking about this a little bit earlier like this It’s very hard to find Someone or somewhere to learn how to swim if you’re an adult like if you’re 40 years old and you think all right I’m going to get into swimming where do you start it’s it’s quite difficult to To find a good place that can can teach you and even teach you the very basics And as as you and I know when you’re working with people who are brand new you get some funny questions One of the questions I got was how do you put on a swim cap? And it’s like it’s inherent knowledge for us But you know, there’s just such basic stuff that I wouldn’t often consider when you’re working with people who have got some experience in the pool So how how have you found it with the with those real beginners like changing perhaps from going from your elite competition To um to back to basics Yeah, it’s challenging It’s very tough because I’ve come from a field of actually dealing with elite and they know everything they’re taught at a very young age

It’s repetitive as a kid from 10 years of age. They swim their whole life So all of a sudden I was dealing with like you say 40 year old adults and we call them free range When they come down people like you said they put their caps on sideways They don’t even have a clue and the goggles are facing upside down the speedo mark in the middle of the goggles or the velary mark It’s upside down. They don’t even know and all it is is basic stuff So I actually keep redefining my sessions more and more and more and I cut back further and further because To me what I think is just absolute common knowledge. It is hilarious the things that people ask, you know The most common one for me. Obviously, we swim in the ocean I do most of my swimming at burley head surf club Out the front or I do it in talabajara creek And I actually get people coming up to me asking me before their first sessions What I’m doing about the sharks how I’m taking care of the sharks

And we’ve got one later that soon as with three shark bands So one on each ankle and one on a wrist and uh, she’s still with us. So they obviously work but For me for me. It’s cutting it back It’s and we’ve got a lady in our group Sonya who she actually identifies the little things to me that mean nothing as gold nuggets And uh, every session I hopefully give out one two or three gold nuggets that they can take away and put it in their toolbox And uh and use it every time they swim

Yeah, it’s um It and often and that’s what I’ve found in the last like six or seven years that I’ve been running clinics The the simplest possible version of it is is the best like we started with a heap of content So I can’t fit everything in and then the more you do it the more you work with pebble You start to whittle it down until what’s really essential and so if they come away with one or two things You know, it’s that they remember it and then they can build upon it the next for me It’s been tough because um as a head coach of a surf club. You’re not only running the kids You’re running the surf club. There’s so much back-end work to do and it’s all about structure and preparation so you’re right you you program you work backwards from the carnivals and With this, you know, I’ll have a four-week program written up for my swimmers Mate it goes out the door when I get down there and it’s and there’s this howling tide coming in

There’s a sand bank halfway through the course So it’s about evolving and learning as you go and you’ve actually got to play with it And then the second part of that is the different abilities. So I don’t judge I I don’t care what level of ability you are I’ll let anyone come along and if you can’t swim well, then I’ll ask you to put fins on I provide paddles for different sessions, but all of a sudden my session that I’ve got organized I have to completely flip because one person’s so far behind I’ve got to incorporate different things so that everyone can keep up and it’s it’s actually an enjoyable session

Yeah, that’s right There’s one thing I found when we started running out camps in Thailand a couple years ago was We started going open water and then the first year that we that we did that or maybe the second year We weren’t prepared for the different levels and the surf and I was like, all right We have to do a better job at at the safety here and And you know, then now we use a use a boat. We’ve got kayaks out there We’ve got the safety sorted because it’s hard. You’ve got a group of pretty quick swimmers. They’re out of heads You’ve got a middle group. Maybe you’ve got two other groups behind it And you can’t just leave them to their own devices You’ve got to have that that support there And I mean you’ve I look say you’ve got quite a few helpers there with you with your like tally creaks Yeah, we do we um, we really promote youth I’m a big fan of safety coming from surf life saving I actually work for surf life saving for some years and help them formulate their shallow water rescue program

Unfortunately, when one of the young kids drowned My job was to go out and find him and I had to coordinate the whole thing and structure the whole program From that it’s paramount for me. So incorporating youth with the surf clubs We actually pay our kids 25 dollars an hour. They love it They get cash on the day and we usually have four in so we work off the ratio of eight to one Depending on our numbers and we follow the guidelines of surf life saving and it’s really comforting And we actually get people come from other swim groups that rock up to have a swim And they say, you know how comforting it is that we’re out the back On the weekend, we actually just swam from burly heads right around a telebudger creek. So it’s a 2k swim We had boys the whole way, but we set out swimming Our water safety out at all the different cans So at every point you had someone that was looking after you taking care of you and guiding you as you went

And for people who are nervous and scared about it, we’re a long way out to sea We’re a good 400 meters off the shore and that really comforts them. So that’s one of our biggest is safety Even when I go away to um, Donald Nyland, you know, I pay for a paid lifeguard So a council lifeguard comes away with me and then another water safety so that we keep that ratio Eight to one and it just makes life so much easier for me. And in regards to that the two people that are water safety One’s a an athlete that was in the neutral growing some years ago and The other one is a professional swimming coach as well So they can actually guide and help when they see that someone’s struggling or they need stroke correction or So it’s all about team too Yeah, absolutely and uh moving into Swimming in the ocean compared to swimming in the pool From your experience and your own experience and working with swimmers in coaching them on that

What are some of those things that you like to teach and focus on when it does come to the open water swimming compared to the pool? Because it’s uh, it’s a different environment out there and you know the triathletes that I coach It’s uh, yeah, you know that they’ve got to get that experience in the open water Else it’s just that they’re not going to be able to compete as well as they um, what if it was in a pool totally I um last year we had the the british triathlon olympic team come out There was about 20 in the squad Before tokyo and they did five weeks here and we based it out at alabajara, but we swam at all different locations One of the biggest things for me was that they had no idea about conditions They didn’t know when a rip was coming in. Um, they didn’t know about currents They would never know how to read the actual tides. Obviously, it’s a little bit different over there in england

But what the first thing I always try and do is teach people how to read an app So when you go into a location, you know what the conditions are going to be like Therefore you can actually start mentally preparing what you’re going to be doing And then before we do a session this morning time myself We stand there and we explain it over and over and over We don’t just do it once we do it three or four or five times during the session And we try to get people to read the conditions so they can use it to their advantage Um, so many times people walk down they go. Oh, look, there’s the other side of tally I’ll swim across they start to swim within less than 20 strokes. They’re nearly under the bridge They’re going straight down the creek or they’re going out to sea and it happens so often So I think education is the first step Uh, number two is conditions when you actually get down there There’s such variants from a pool the pool’s so flat. It’s so controlled. You can see the bottom

There’s no creatures in there and uh, the next part is with packs So once you teach them about the safety of the water The chop the different sizes of the chop the way the swell comes how to use it It’s actually really enlightening for people to to learn that Then we go into stroke. I mean everything goes out the door I came and did your class with you and and I love that I learned so much from it I still put into practice what you taught me I’m a big fan on upskilling as much as I possibly can because you never know You never know everything and there’s always something new you can learn But what I find is is playing around with different strokes Different cadence different tempos How far your arm does go down? I know you’re really big on your your entry with your catch We try that but every now and then when there’s a two foot chop, you just can’t do that It’s it’s almost impossible. So there’s so much playing around with it and teaching different skill sets

Yeah, absolutely and You know things like you look at the ocean and it can be a scary thing But once you’ve got the the knowledge first of all, you know, you can use it through advantage You look at a you look at a rip and it’s kind of like a It’s like a chainsaw. It can be beneficial. It can cut down a tree or it can chop your arm off Right same thing with a with a with a rip It’s can take you out to sea out where you want to go or you know If you’re not sure what you’re doing it can you know really be a struggle to to get back in So by knowing that stuff then you’re a lot more relaxed And that’s really the first thing you need to have when you’re out there is just to to keep cool and I was reading a An article today about the story that you that people tell themselves Is a big factor in their heart rate? So if you’re out in the open water and your story is There’s creatures around there’s sharks here. I don’t know what’s going on. That’s the story. You’re telling yourself your heart rate

It’s going to be up here But if you’re thinking like I’m just I’m just a part of this and I can You know, I’m enjoying this and look the sun’s out Then you can keep your heart rate down and it’s a very different experience Have you sort of seen that when people have gone through your your classes unbelievably? So one of the biggest things that anyone that watches this that’s ever swam with me They’ll laugh about it because I’m a distractor So if I’m in the middle of a session and I’ve got someone that’s panicking their shallow breathing They’re only breathing into their chest and they’re actually not relaxed. I can pick it straight away First thing I do is I ask them the most random questions. So I take their mind off whatever they’re thinking about I’m really big on hours yesterday. I have you got kids or I just roll on with really random questions It’s amazing within three to four seconds. I can change someone’s

Breathing pattern. I can change the way that they’re thinking about the whole session With about 10 seconds they clue into what I’m doing and they start laughing the whole group starts laughing and they get really Really comfortable. So Anyone that’s watching this will just giggle because I do it to everyone and it’s usually first timers first or second session By the third session they’re clued into it and they’re they’re pretty wise to it And they’re smart that they know what I’m trying to do and and once it works It’s a great little technique that that takes everyone’s mind off it and they can think about the job at hand

And with you mentioned the british triathlon team coming out and and You had some of the surf surf iron man guys out racing with them and training with them just teaching them how to get out quickly and Getting them in that race mode And that’s something that I’ve seen just make such a difference if people can get that experience in the open water And get used to swimming in in tight groups and getting out quickly to the to the boys or the cans It’s um, I could just you need to do that. You can’t you can replicate it a bit in the pool But it’s you got to get out into the the open water So what what did you notice in those triathletes after a couple of days of You know doing that stuff that you were you were going through the first session We did the very first day when they got over I did a presentation power point presentation explaining the week and then I told them about the very first session They sort of laughed and giggled at it. But the first thing I noticed with any triathlete

Nearly all of them because they don’t train in open water and actually do the distance that they race It’s always short first thing that goes is their shoulders So most people train in the pool they tumble turn their arms get a rest every time they tumble turn If you throw someone straight into a 750 or a 1500 meter swim straight off the bat It really rattles them. So it’s about repetitious and and these guys just weren’t doing that They were jumping into a lake and they were doing a quick little sprint They were never really guiding themselves over the distance that they were racing Obviously as a coach you go over the distance so that you’re comfortable doing that that shorter distance and our first day Um, I introduced them to verly funny story and alexie that just got second at the olympics He actually got really seasick. So, um, he was at the back vomiting He went bright green and we swam all the way down the north burly and the first swim back was a 2k swim

And it was as you feel and it was very funny to watch what happened Some people went out on their own other people stuck as close as I’ve ever seen someone stick because they kept looking at the bottom like we’re talking about before the panic and We repeated that over and over and by the end of the five weeks. It was amazing the difference They were swimming tight knit. They were really close next to each other They actually had a plan rather than just jumping and going as hard as they could for as long as they could They set out a plan within that actual distance. So they knew that, um, tom bishops, for instance He would always stand on the start and let everyone go I couldn’t believe it. I was just flabbergasted and he said, oh, that’s my race plan You know, I want to let them go and then I work my way back and I just couldn’t believe that I thought that’s just absolutely crazy So we threw him in the deep end and I’d make him lead and have everyone come over the top of it

And uh, he realized that it actually isn’t that bad once you’re up in front. Yes, there’s argy bargy But it was just the different scenarios that they weren’t used to they weren’t Replicating what they raced in so we did it over and over and over again And they loved it. We had a great time one of their favorite sessions We would put shoes on and swim across telebudger a creek and then race over the bridge back But the rules were we had to be touching so everyone in the group had to be really tight Really close and it was just about pack swimming and learning that fear of actually being in the water And clashing with friends and when you got shoes on you learn really quickly about streamline And then you’re actually going to wade so they’re end of a triathlete race getting out of the water It’s amazing how many people swim to the ramp and they stop about a body length before it Their feet drop then they’ve got to take another four strokes just to get out of the water

So the little finer things is what we worked on and they loved it. We had a great time

Yeah, that’s it’s interesting about his his race strategy like even at that level It’s like I’d give that race strategy to someone who is just looking to survive the swim They’re first like first couple of triathlons, but at that level no, you want to have them You know be be at least Confident enough to try and get in some sort of pack in the beginning and then build from there. It’s um One of the things I noticed so I did a triathlon a couple years ago and my wife was just sort of filming the exit of the the swim and It was like I saw people walking or waiting for 50 60 meters Like because it was pretty shallow it’s it’s saying killed up and once they could roughly see the bottom They just walk in Same thing if you if you can just keep keep swimming in until you can like almost touch the bottom Then you can pause and and dolphin dive, but you’re right it’s all these little things that you can save so much time and

One of the things that I told my athletes is like you do Put in so much effort so much time in trying to get your hundred hundred pace down one or two or three seconds But there’s these other little things that might save you A minute in a race. It’s like you know siding swimming straight that kind of thing There’s all these things that uh that we sometimes forget to factor you’re you’re gonna laugh at this I’ve just had a new client come over from a um a triathlon company He has joined from brisbane. He drives down wonderful guy Is loving what we’re doing Anyway, he’s been doing triathlon for some years and his approach to the swim was he just hated the swim It wasn’t a good part of it could run well could cycle well, but just didn’t enjoy it So he’s been with us for about five weeks now. He had this is the greatest pb in history and i’m not bragging But he had a 45 minute pb So 45 minutes. So his normal um triathlon race was just gonna go bang. He’d let everyone go he’d walk in

He’d just dawdle behind them keep his head up majority of the way He’d only take about 10 or 15 strokes with his head down because he was so scared of what was under the water His last race that he did was a 45 minute pb. So I got a six pack of beer out of that one

I think you deserve to say that’s uh, wow, that’s awesome And and so for him, uh, it was just getting yeah, he’s he’s afraid of the ocean A lot of people think that there’s massive creatures underneath and they’re going to come up and grab them They’ve got this mentality of Watching social media and there’s all these different sharks and there’s crocodiles. There’s stingers There’s you know, australias got all of these amazing animals that can come out and bite you and grab you They think about it 24 7 like I have people literally just before it’s standing there putting their goggles on and their hands are Shaking as they’re putting their goggles on before they get in the water. I asked them the first thing What are they thinking about and they go sharks? That’s the first thing they say So we don’t we don’t say the word sharks in our group. It’s marine creatures So that’s what we try and promote so that no one actually says the word

I know it’s it’s a little bit simple, but it really works and we try and keep their their minds off that When he went into the race, he hated confrontation So he didn’t want to touch people. He didn’t want to be near people And he found that not only that he was breathing every four strokes Now he’s put his head in hold his breath for four strokes within three cycles. He was cooked He’d have to stop and do breaststroke So I it’s amazing how many people don’t even discuss that with their swimming coach their pool coach How they’re going to swim whether it’s a two stroke rotation or four stroke whatever it is But I mean there’s so many little parts to the swimming facet That you can fix a swim leg up and make up massive grounds Whereas on the bike you’re only going to get like you said a a smaller chunk of reward for your your investment This podcast is brought to you by our sponsor form goggles Form combines the world’s smartest goggles real-time metrics and guided workouts to make swimming fun

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Yeah, absolutely it um my my in-laws my yeah my in-laws they are All like I surf I try to surf every day And so every time they ask about the surface like Talking about sharks, and I’m like I don’t think about it like it’s I’ve seen I’m pretty sure I’ve seen one in my 15 years of surfing But that’s it and like yeah, sure they’re gonna be out there, but It you just don’t you don’t consider it because like it just You’d be so unlucky for it to happen But I I get it like people they you see the news and like maybe the one or two attacks a year It stays in their mind, but it’s it’s something to just You don’t really need to think about and then what you mentioned with the breathing cycles I’ve got a guy I’m working with at the moment And uh, he said I’m struck like I’m still getting really tired after 50 meters and what we found was he’s he’s breathing Was it seven? Oh my gosh. I breathing every seven seven five and then a four and it’s like man, I’ll be tired too

So it’s like all right. Let’s just start with two. So let’s just let’s just get comfortable doing that And uh, it’s gonna be much easier. And so yeah, that’s it makes a big difference Just some of those simple things that it’s easy to forget about yeah, we um Going back to the sharks a funny one. Um, and they’ll probably listen to this and have a laugh about it But I work with swimming Queensland Um swimming Queensland asked me to put on events where I teach their young open water swimmers I get kaihurst along and we work together with the young kids coming through and it’s all about pathways for the future and uh Then they won’t allow me to hold the session on the western side of the talabajara bridge They’ve heard off someone and from the officers said that they’re sharks on the other side So we’re not allowed to go over there. I mean, I swim there every day. It’s just comical and I yeah I just nod my head. I go yes. Sure. No worries. We’ll keep the other side. So

There’s so many people out there with these crazy theories about where the sharks are and where they aren’t but Um getting back to that that breathing cycle Yeah, we um, I deal with two things, you know, I do a lot of breath control too I do a lot of um hypoxic where we we teach people how long they can actually hold their breath for until they pop And we do it in a really controlled where it’s standing up. So if they they do pop They just got to put their feet down But it’s funny people think they could only hold their breath for you know, five or six They end up holding it for 18 20 some people can get up to 30 And then it makes them realize that, you know, they’ve got a great lung capacity There’s no reason why they can’t recycle their air faster and keep that going so they don’t puff out and it works It works absolute wonders and they love doing it and they realize that holding their breath for four and

Four six or eight is just absolutely crazy, especially if you’re in a race because you’ve got nerves You’ve got panic the adrenaline is rushing through the body and you’re just gonna you’re gonna pop really quick

Such a common thing that I Get from people is like I’m even I’m breathing every three and it’s just like I’m getting pretty tired It’s like and they’re breathing every three because they’re they’re told by lateral is the way to go And it’s a skill you can we discuss this? I’d like to find out a few being the swim coach Let’s talk about it because a lot of my guys have the same issue Me personally I worked with Dennis Cotchall for years and he tried to do a little bit of bilateral with me But he realized very early on that I just couldn’t do it. I felt really uncomfortable my left hand side every time I breathe it it saw on my neck I’m really comfortable when I write so I’ve stuck with that my whole career I pass on the same knowledge that Dennis taught me. What’s your your thoughts on that?

Yes, so mine it’s it’s essentially I want people to be able to do it But then just go with whatever works best for you That’s it like You might need it Perhaps if it’s choppy on one side you need to turn to the the other side And if you are comfortable with it then do a little bit of bilateral Me personally I’m normally like 30 percent to my non-preferred side during training 70 percent to the other But I’ll just I’ll mix up my breathing pattern depending on the the speed But when I’m racing it’s all that’s in a controlled pool, isn’t it?

Yeah in a pool, but like yeah when I’m racing in open water, it’s Only to the left every two. There you go. I’m exactly the same. I’m to the right every two for me. I’m exactly the same

Yeah, yeah, there you go. Like it’s it’s just some of those like Those like phrases or you know things that people that just get ingrained and people think it has to be that way But it’s it’s just not they call them craig riddington You just have one arm bigger than the other the clock and people think that’s what’s going to happen You know the fact that you’re only breathing one side you’re going to build up stronger on one side It’s irrelevant to that. It’s it’s not going to come into play. So great to hear that you’re exactly the same as me

I was listening to Carl Chalmers on Brett Hawks podcast recently and just after he broke the 100 freestyle short course world record And he breathed Pretty much the whole hundred he breathed every two There might have been the occasional four in there perhaps off the start or something But he breathed every two and he was saying that he’d spoke with his coach about it And he felt like he just couldn’t get the same length when he was breathing a four So for him that that breath actually helped get a little bit more length in the stroke And and I think perhaps just finding a more consistent rhythm And so that’s for 100, you know where he could could breathe every four strokes the first 50 and then maybe come back to twos but There you go at even the top speed Breathe at two cycles faster for him, which I found quite interesting. It’s a crazy area We’ve got a lady in our group called Sue George. She’s going to laugh at this

So only last week I pulled her up on our short sprints. We just did 40 strokes hard out Recover back 30 strokes hard out recover back. It was all about getting the heart rate up She was holding her breath for eight Now you imagine holding your breath for eight and you’re doing 40 And she just popped her head up and she said this is the hardest thing in the world I said the reason it’s so hard is because you’re holding your breath. I said relax. She couldn’t believe it It changed her whole outlook on it and she absolutely loved the session, which was really cool

That’s awesome We were doing some breath control this morning and it was 150 meters after some sprints and It was going 50 breathing three five seven and I was I was going five five seven But I was done after that 150 holding every seven like I just made it Because my heart rate was up and if I’m going easy and I got rest in between I can go go longer than that but Yeah, just goes to show if there’s any sort of effort in there get get the air in that’s the one The one thing I love about that set you’re talking about there is what it does is it takes you away from all of the Biomechanics of swimming the reason being is that when I try and teach people swimming There is so much to flood them with it’s crazy. So keep it simple Keep it streamlined. But when we do that is they are concentrating so hard on their breath That they forget about everything. There’s no worries about the creatures There’s no worries about anything because they’re so worked up about holding their breath

I love it. I’m a big fan of the three five seven. It’s a cracker

Yeah, yeah, it’s good, isn’t it and uh, and so you just came back from Hamilton island as you mentioned with a Swim escape there. What’s uh, I think of the the camps I’ve done overseas a little bit different to yours We sort of focus a bit more on the technical side of things in terms of their stroke And we still do some open water swims and things like that But it’s um, but you’re doing it more of this swim escape where you’re getting a big group of people together taking them on open water swims every day and And really getting like people to form new friendships and just have a good weekend a good week away Can you talk about some of the things that You think of really like working well with that and and what you’re finding people are getting at at the moment My biggest clientele is middle-aged mums I didn’t realize how big an industry there is of mothers where the kids have just left home The husbands the the main source of income

They’re basically sitting there twiddling their thumbs and they’re no longer Looking after the kids and they’re looking for a new avenue. They’re looking for something in life That’s going to give them a bit of enjoyment a bit of a thrill and not only that They’re life’s been so engrossed with their kids that they’ve they’ve lost a lot of friends Not so much lost, but they’ve just let them pass So once I started this business, I couldn’t believe how many mums are out there and my groups 90% full of middle-aged mums and What I try to do is I try to bring people together And when they come together, we call it the like monitor community and the tribe and we basically Don’t work on techniques. So I give simple little pointers Stroke correction breathing the basics of kicking, but I’m not there to turn them into olympic swimmers I’m there to create a community where people absolutely love it and they have a great time

So for instance our trip away to hamilton island, we did two this year our first one which was june We took 60 people up there That was a four-day budget trip where we swam everything out for front of hamilton island and every day Our job as a coach was to not mingle with them during the day But only swim with them at the group so that they actually I’m a bit of a larrick and a bit of a A clown and I like to have fun. So once I step back, they all start to form their relationships and become friends From that group of 60 in june. We had about six or seven re-signed from november. They loved it that much This one was a deluxe swim. So we went up there in the first day. We went out on an 82 foot sunseeker yacht The same yacht that george cluney booked the day after us It was pretty cool little thing to throw in there But we swam over it. We were meant to swim at whitehaven. The weather was really bad So they took us to chance bay and we um, we swam four kilometers along this amazing backdrop cliff

And my rule as a coach is that we shouldn’t swim anything further than four or five hundred metres at any time One because I want the tail enders to catch up I I openly offered Fins to anyone and out of our group of 30 there would have been probably 15 that took fins just because they wanted to enjoy it On the swim, we see turtles. We see fish. We saw coral. We see absolutely everything We have a jet ski that follows us at the whole time Steve our water safety. He’s at the back with the rescue tube as well I swim around the group the whole time So I lead with my green bubble and play around and have a chat with everyone After that, we go back to the boat and have lunch on the boat. Um, the following day We actually swam down hills inlet. So if anyone’s seen whitehaven, we actually swam down the river Um, we got right on the inside and the boat comes right in and picks us up on the inside, which is I’ve been wanting to do it for years and just never had the opportunity and to be able to do that

It’s just phenomenal that the water quality the way that the tide moves in There’s no one around your your own place there because everyone stays up at the front So we had the whole creek to ourselves and it was it was a phenomenal life changing swim Um, what I also try to do is I finish a lot of my swims off with a race So once we finish the two days of hard swimming, we then back it off And we do real simple sessions off the front of Katzai beach and we make it fun A couple of relays if you need to we looked at turtles It’s amazing how many turtles are at Hamilton Island And then the sundaes the Hamilton Island ocean swim For me as a coach and training people that are first off They’re afraid of the ocean number two They think they can’t swim and the fact that they actually get there and they either do the 750 or the 2k race It’s a really invigorating moment for me I jumped in and actually had a swim my son was in it as well. So it’s the first time I raced my son

He actually won that open He won the overall thing which was pretty exciting for me and I gotta I saw that I got a bit emotional I’ve got a bit teary towards the end my wife was there screaming and I crossed the line and he’s he’s got the one finger up I couldn’t believe it so But for me more than anything I had two or three ladies that didn’t want to end of the race And I said look you don’t have to end of the race. It’s not it’s not pressured to do it But I’m confident you love it if you actually did it. I had one lady chris from Tasmania She did it and when we started about About eight months ago. She couldn’t take six strokes without standing up and stopping So from eight months we got her into the into the seven week A 750 swim and she swam the whole 750 without fins to the beach and stood up and ballerized out She just couldn’t believe it. She’s hugging me. I’m hugging her everyone’s crying and I’m just about to race and it was the most emotional race

It was so wonderful to see so For me, it’s about creating a tribe creating a community I love learning off you and and getting different things, but it’s not so much about passing that on it’s about having fun It’s about enjoying it and creating memories for life

Yeah, absolutely. It’s uh, I’ve just found Running running um the camps that we do it’s that community and tribe like we have people come back Each year and like you just yeah, you just when you spend that long together and you you go through those sessions and Like people that’s what I found in terms of like my swimming friends growing up like when you’re in there You’re all working hard. They’re all Like-minded you you make such different friendships. I think then you do through you know other things Because you’ve you’ve got that sort of group worth work ethic and Blood sweating to the thing the thing that amazed me is at the end of every single swim So we swam I think it was seven times over the five the six days that were there Not including the race or the pre-race prep But at the end of every session they clap and cheer and they hug each other If someone’s a long way behind on one of the swimming efforts and it takes them a little bit longer to get in

Without me even queuing them they’ll turn around and the whole team will start cheering them on and clapping and When they get in one or two of the girls will go over and hug them and tell them how great a job they’ve done So it’s really self-encouraging and to sit back and watch A little community that you’ve created do that. It’s it’s awe-inspiring

Yeah, it’s so good like And again, like where else do you get that probably not many as an adult get it with you get it with kids They’ve got their sporting clubs. They’ve got their school stuff going on but for adults, you know We’re we’re starved for that kind of recognition and support. I think um I think on top of that is that we’re so worried about everyone else And if you’re a normal human being you worry about your kids You worry about your wife your husband whatever it is You forget about yourself and everyone forgets about themselves So for my squad when they turn up for instance this morning we ranged We had about 70 there this morning swimming with Ty and I And it ranges from nine year old kids to we had a 79 year old lady swimming with us Now we split it up into our for our for bravo charlie group and that just goes on your ability So we don’t judge it doesn’t matter what level you are But to see an individual actually turn up when the hubbies off cycling or the kids are at the pool swimming

And they’ve found their niche. They’ve found their environment that they want to thrive in They just love it and the coffee after it that’s meant to take 10 or 15 minutes ends up being a two hour coffee

That’s right one one hour swing to our coffee. That’s that’s not that

Yeah, it’s uh, and I saw that a lot over the last 18 months with uh, basements here in melbourne is Seems like a lot of people started swimming in the bay because pools are closed and uh, and and they’ve formed these really good Communities where I think they’ve got the you’ve got the cold water So a lot of them are going no wetsuit and so that’s a that’s a big factor And but then just they’ve got their community of like five 10 15 swimmers That um, we’ll swim for half an hour if it’s 10 degree water and then catch up You’re gonna have that Yeah, look, I that’s I’m not bragging about 10 degree water. I don’t go in it. Um Yeah, I think you’ve got it pretty good up there on the go. Yeah, we do. We’ve got great water. Um, we’re very lucky We’ve got um velary wetsuits up here based out of southport and and they found ty and i early on in this episode and we jumped on board with velary and it’s amazing how many people

Still wear wetsuits the water is 21 degrees and they’ll still rock up and wear a full steamer Just because they’re comfortable, but number two is they’re really buoyant So if you’re a new swimmer and you’re learning, um, you could either wear the shorts or you wear the wetsuit But a wetsuit actually raises you up out of the water circulates the water in your chest and Takes away that chill where you’re shaking and thinking about not thinking about your stroke or your breathing and It creates a really controlled environment so that you’re having fun while you’re doing it So we’ve been very lucky that velary came on board and and helped us out but 10 more 10 degree water We just we would not do that for the wildest dream. I wouldn’t be involved with that at all I don’t worry not not many male burnings do either unless it’s desperate times and they’ve been out of the pool for a while So yeah, um and in terms of what you’ve got, uh, you’ve got coming up with uh with the business

What’s happened? Um, I just signed on with um the world series swim I am now going to be running their pre-race swims. Uh, so before nusa before bondi before I don’t know about porti. We we don’t think we’re going to get down to porti, but My goal there is to jump in and actually help people conquer that fear and and know what they’re doing So at nusa last year when they ran it, um, I took 50 people up there for a swim escape and It was really obvious my group when I told them where to go in How to turn the buoy? What to site it was obvious that my group was really having a great run and a great line in the water So how to chat with them? They’ve let me come on board So I run two sessions before each one of those a nine o’clock and a four o’clock session And I talk about tactics, um, what to eat how to mentally prepare for it When the race starts how to identify which way the water is moving and how to actually do a race where

You enjoy it rather than being nervous walking down there. So that’s one of the first ones Second is that we’re not far from the board is opening internationally So I’m going to actually take this internationally. We’re going to go over to puke. We’re going to go to the Maldives We’re looking at hawaii And then june it looks like I’m going to be heading over to To england to work with the british triathlon team again They’ve just signed me up three years, which is pretty exciting times But on the home front, um, we’ve got a lot going on. I’m really excited. We’ve talked about it on this podcast The adults out there in australia That don’t have the opportunity to jump in and an adult learn to swim session where it’s not pool driven And it’s more about fun and community. I start that on monday I’ve got miranda goodwin. Who’s a anichagrain eye woman. She’s working alongside with me that So she’s a qualified learn to swim coach

So we’ll be working together with them and and I’ve got to tell you That’s more thrilling than than coaching an athlete to a title It’s so fun to watch someone’s journey from from where they start to where they end and and seeing them embrace it and Enjoy it along the line. So The business that started off with one or two sessions is now blown out my weeks out of control and And every minute every minute’s chewed up. I’m I’m actually catching up with uh, a 12 o’clock with jay ma from yourongapool in brisbane So he sends all of his swimmers down that want to start open water swimming They have to come and do my safety course my ocean course before it. So I’m catching up with him for lunch at twill We’ve got a couple of ideas of different ways to approach it So we can get more people involved with open water swimming and teach them the right way so they have a great time doing it

Fantastic, well, I love the work that you’re doing and it’s it’s just great to have that that available to people and We’re coming from your background and experience. I couldn’t think of anyone better to to be doing that So I appreciate you being on the podcast and I’ve really enjoyed chatting with you today and If I ever get up to Queensland one day again, uh, hopefully next year Yeah, certainly would I’d love to jump in do the course again, you know upskilling is a massive part of coaching I’m a huge fan of it. I also love what you’re doing online and all your videos All your podcasts great to jump on and for any coach out there It’s just so easy to watch and listen to the finer little things that you do that make such a different for anyone swimming So thanks for having me on um, if anyone wants to reach me they can reach me at philclaytonandcode.com We’re open to everyone. We’ve got a lot of different things on the website and uh, have us scroll through and

Hopefully I can help out get out there and help more swimmers get involved with open water swimming

Yeah, thank you and we’ll put those in the show notes and when when people see the the drone shots from tully creek and And some of those shots from hamilton island. I don’t think you’ll need much persuasion to get them get them along It’s uh, it’s awesome. So thanks again phil and uh, yeah talks in Thanks for listening to the effortless swimming podcast. If you’d like us to help you become a faster more efficient swimmer go to www.effortlesswimming.com