But, you know, I had the same challenge when I first started coaching, frustrated the hell out of me that I couldn’t even swim right, just swim right. I don’t know how to tell you to do it, right? Yeah. You should just do it this way.

And I think the biggest learning I had was that people learn in different ways and one prompt or cue might work for one individual, but for another, it’s meaningless and they can’t get the head around it. So it’s important to have several different cues to try and get the same point across. Welcome to the Effortless Swimming Podcast to show that help swimmers and triathletes love the water, become a better swimmer and live a better life. Here’s your host, Brenton Ford.

Welcome to the Effortless Swimming Podcast. My guest today is a fellow coach but also a competitor, a triathlete who has done a huge amount of racing and has done one of the longer distance triathlons that there is, Ultraman, and done incredibly well. So, John McCann, welcome to the podcast. Hey, thanks, Brenton. Welcome. I think I’m happy to be here. It’s a good morning. Look, it’s before nine o’clock, so you’ve got all the excuses you like being over in WA. And I mean, for you guys over there, it seems like it’s been pretty much unchanged with how things have been over the last couple of months or last 12 months or so in terms of racing and that kind of thing. Yeah, we’ve been pretty lucky over here. We’ve missed them again, locking the border down and keeping the virus out. We’ve pretty much had business as usual so our races are going ahead. A lot of them are selling out, which is really great. And yeah, training carries on as usual.

Got a lot of people from over here who are hoping to be able to get over to BUSSO and race next year because it’s such a great event. And for you, for your background, could you let the listeners know sort of what your background is in terms of competition and coaching because you’ve got a wealth of experience in triathlon and a pretty handy swim yourself. So for those listening, John competed in Ultraman in 2021 and you had the fastest swim leg, the 10K swim in averaging pretty much just over 130s, I think it was, was it? Yeah, about 133s. Yeah, which is pretty handy. So yeah, for those listening, what’s your background in terms of triathlon? Yeah, I’ve been in triathlon for a while. I started in 1986. So a lot of your listeners probably weren’t even born at that time, so it’s 36 years in the business. I started at high school, had a PE teacher who was, he said, hey, there’s this great new sport called triathlon, you really should give it a go

because you’re pretty handy around the track and you’re a good swimmer. At the time I didn’t have a bike so that was the one thing I needed to build on. But in sort of the last 36 odd years, probably raced over 300 races now. And in the last 10 years, the focus has moved more towards longer distance and Ironman events. So I’ve competed seven Ironmans in the last 10 years. I find as I get older, I get a bit slower and the longer distances are a lot more appealing, the lower intensity and just a little more of a casual day out. Although I still do love the sprint races and the standard distance races. So I’m not gonna throw a few of those out every year as well.

You know, obviously with most athletes, they keep looking for the next big thing and you go through the standard, then the 70.3 and then the Ironman, once you’ve done a few Ironmans, just say, well, okay, what’s next? And obviously I sort of looked over to Noosa and saw the Ultraman event and thought, oh yeah, I’ll give that a crack. And signed up for that actually for the 2020 event which was cancelled due to COVID though. I had a bit of an extended training period getting ready for that race which finally went ahead in May this year. And in terms of the differences in training for the two events, so from Ironman to Ultraman, how did you change your approach?

It’s not all that different, to be honest. I sort of looked back at some of my training peak stats for the last couple of years. And for Ironman, I’d typically do between 15 and 20 hours of training a week for Ultraman. It was a little more than that to the 20 to 25 hour range. And the primary difference was the amount of time spent on the bike. So with Ultraman, with a day one on Ultraman for the listeners that may not be aware of the race is a 10K swim followed by 140K bike ride. And that bike ride has about 1300 meters of elevation gain. Then on day two, you get out of bed and just whack out a nice easy 280K ride with 2,300 meters of elevation gain. So it’s not by no means a flat ride course. And then on the third day, you’re back it all up with a double marathon, an 84K run along the coast at Noosa there, which again isn’t flat, probably 500 meters of climbing in that day as well. So a huge emphasis on the bike

and getting comfortable on the bike for very long periods of time. So quite often out on the bike for between five and eight hours for the long training sessions in the lead up to the race. So that’s the primary difference. The other thing that a lot of people are probably concerned about when they think about Ultraman is all there’s this double marathon that you’ve got to get ready for. And it would be unwise to do a lot of

high volume run training in the lead up to an event like that. The running portion, as everyone knows, is quite punishing on the body. And when you’re fatigued and run down from long ride sessions, it’s dangerous to do too much running. So I had a bit of a different strategy. My running was actually pretty minimal leading into Ultraman. I replaced that training with more time in the pool, which gave me sort of both base fitness and the opportunity to recover from some of the bike rides. And rather than doing long miles in running, I focused on gym work to try and build leg strength.

Wasn’t necessarily by plan. I had some injuries going into the race. So that meant that running for me was a little bit difficult, but reflecting back on it, it was a really good strategy that worked well for race day. So if you were to do it again, you’d take that same approach of not doing too much running and just building up the strength. Absolutely. Yeah, I’d like to have done more running. It was sort of back on the data, I was averaging 10 to 20 K a week in the runs for the six weeks leading up to Ultraman and virtually nothing in the three months prior to that due to calf injuries.

That’s clearly not enough to get through an 84 K run. I was actually telling the guys I was racing with at the 20 K marker, the run that this was the longest run I’d done in the last six months. And most of them looked at it a little bit short and then proceeded to run off into the sunset.

But yeah, I mean, the good news was I did manage to get through the strength work in the gym, the long miles on the bike all contributed to some good overall fitness and strength that meant that I was able to run the full distance of the double marathon, albeit a little bit slower than what I would have preferred to have done if I had the right level of training. Did for the swim, what sort of training were you doing in the lead-up to Ultraman? Yeah, I don’t change my swim training a lot. With the swimming background, that’s my strongest leg and I love the swim. It’s what I get the most enjoyment out of. So for me, three to four swims a week is normal. That’s kind of my base training, regardless of what events are coming up. And I’ll normally knock out between 12 and 15 K a week with that sort of duration.

Most weeks, I’ll focus on one to two sort of longer endurance swims.

One more of a hard threshold hit out and then I’ll usually have a more resting recovery technique focused swim most weekends, usually after a long ride just to stretch things out a little bit and just lock in the right sort of technique cues. And what are some of those technique cues that you focus on?

Well, for me, I’ve had a look at some of my own video of how I swim and it looks terrible. I mean, I’m embarrassed. I’m not a pretty swimmer. I get relatively quick, but my stroke doesn’t look smooth at all. I have a tendency to have quite a big arch in my back to try and maintain that level body position. And that’s predominantly because I’ve got a tendency to lift my head and look forward.

I also have to do a lot of work and think really hard about my catch, to make sure that I’m keeping a nice high elbow through the catch and pull phase of this stroke. So for me, people ask me sometimes, what do you think about during a 10k swim? For me, I’m constantly thinking about technique cues. What can I do to try and make this stroke a little bit more efficient and life a little bit easier for me?

And that usually gets me through. Yeah, and I find it similar when I’ve ever done those sort of longer events or races. It’s like in the back of your mind, it’s always just trying to keep your form, as well as obviously just keeping track of your pace and making sure you’re not going too hard or letting your mind drift and slowing down. But I mean, being at the sort of level you are with your swimming, there’s got to be some things you do well. So what do you think some of those strengths are of your stroke, even if it doesn’t look smooth, as you say, or look pretty? Yeah, it’s a good question.

One thing I noticed is that I am a little bit quicker in a wetsuit. And one of the great things about Ultraman is that it is a wetsuit legal swim. So I tend to get a little bit better body position once I do have the wetsuit on, and that helps quite a bit. I’m quite an experienced open water swimmer. Last year, I did a solo swim to Rocknest Islands. It’s a big event here in Perth. And that’s a Rocknest Islands, about 20K off the coast of Perth. So one morning a year, a couple of thousand people line up on the beach in Perth and they swim across to Rocknest Island. And that was great fun. That took me just over six hours. And I had a ball. And that’s a non wetsuit swim in sort of rough open water.

But that open water swim experience, I think makes a big difference. And I do practice it quite a lot in the lead up to races. So the sort of six to eight weeks before a race, I will add one to two open water swims into my program and just focus on basic open water skills like the siding, making sure that I can breathe both directions in case I’ve got weather coming from one side or another. I’ve got quite a swingy recovery, which helps particularly in rough water, as you know. So I think those open water skills make a big difference. Now being able to swim in a straight line is critical. I’ve got a lot of athletes that swim well, but you get them in open water and they zigzag around a little bit and cover a couple of extra hundred meters, which is not great for your overall race speed. But that’d be the primary thing I’d say that I have as a strength is those open water skills and just time in the open water.

And training for Rocknest, was that the first time? The only time you’ve done it? Yeah, it is. Entry is open today. And I’m quite tempted to have another run at it, but I think I’ll take another year off and think about it sometime in the future. Yeah, you got me. I swam at maybe four or five. I can’t remember four or five years ago now. And I love the training for it. I really enjoyed the training and I love race day as well, apart from the last probably hour, hour and a half, where I really started to feel it. But it’s such a great event. And I just, I love the feeling of being that fit that swim fit. Whereas I don’t think I’ve been that swim fit before, but not for like distance swimming, more for like competition. And yeah, it’s just, it’s really got me wanting to train again, especially after being out at the pool for so long. Yeah, no, I know what you mean. It was, for me, I enjoyed the focus on one discipline for a change.

So I did months with just focus mostly on the pool. My coach was, my coach was Shelly Taylor-Smith. So she’s a world renowned open water swimmer and she was quite disappointed that I did still do a little bit of cycling and running while swimming with her. I’ve got quite a few talkings too and quite a few about not being,

not carrying quite enough body fat to get over the cold water conditions either. So she told me about being more and running and running to try and build up a bit more body fat.

Did you feel the cold during the race? Yeah, I struggled in some of the lead up events to the swim. So early in the season, the water was quite cool and getting towards the end of some of the five and 10K warm up swims, I was feeling it. So I was a bit nervous on the day, but the day turned out to be relatively mild and I didn’t have any temperature issues along the way.

Oh, that’s, it’s fortunate. Yeah, I felt it probably 13, 14 Ks in. And I just can’t, so one of the guys I coached years ago, he trained up for the English Channel and it took, I don’t know, he has, I don’t think he’s ever got back down to his weight pre-training for the channel because the amount of weight he had to put on. But I just look at that and go, man, I don’t want to have to put on like five, I don’t know, probably like five or six kilos to, to avoid feeling it. Although that said, if I was to swim rocknest now apart from my fitness, I’d probably be fine because I’ve, I stepped on the scales the other day and I went, all right, you got to do something now. It’s time to start, start training again because it’s, yeah, without much swimming, it’s, it’s not pretty, but I just, yeah, I find it hard to put on the weight. I just don’t want to, you know, it’s not a good feeling. That’s a dilemma for all athletes

is you don’t really want to put it on because you know how hard it is to get it off. And particularly if, if swimming is one thing that you do but you do a lot of cycling and running as well, the extra weight for cycling and running is really works against you. So, you know, for me, it didn’t, you know why I did have a little bit of extra weight for rocknest. It didn’t make a lot of sense to do a lot of running at that time either just because of the added load that the weight would put on me. And let’s jump over to you, your coaching now. So how long have you been coaching other triathletes for?

I guess it was about six years ago that I did my triathlon Australia coaching qualification. And at that time, my wife and I formed a coaching business called TriExcel and we sort of worked that in the background with our day jobs. We’re both engineers working for major energy companies at the time. So we didn’t have a lot of spare time and we only coached a sort of a handful of athletes. And then this year, we’ve both sort of taken a step back from full-time work and the coaching is now

a little more taking front and center. So we’ve ramped up our activity there, taking on a few more athletes and having a great time with it. Was that always the plan or is it just something that you found? You enjoyed the coaching and you thought, okay, yeah, this could be all right to do a bit more. I mean, we love the coaching. It’s such a fulfilling career choice, helping people out. And most people, when you sort of get them through a big event or a big block of training are so grateful for what you do for them. It’s quite satisfying to get that feeling. And you notice the swim coach that if you can get a breakthrough in someone’s stroke or improve their fitness, they’re just so grateful. When you come out of the big corporate world where you really don’t get thanks for anything, it’s more, why didn’t you do this better?

It’s a great feeling to work with people and feel like you’re making a difference for them. So we’ve been loving it. It’s always probably just gonna be a hobby business for us, just something we do in the background because we enjoy it, keeps us connected to the tri-thlet community. And so it helps us in our own education. So one of the greatest things about taking on the coaching courses was sort of learning for myself, even though I had about 30 years experience in the sport, there’s so much you don’t know and there’s so much that is changing and that we’re discovering every day that things change. We’re no longer running speedos. So that’s disappointing, but technology moves on. Yeah, I look back, I see some of those photos from the 90s of Chris McCormack and some of those guys running around in the speedos. And I mean, there’s very few who do it these days and those that do stand out like us all for better or worse.

So yeah, things do change quite a bit. But in terms of your approach for coaching people on the swim portion of it over that six years, has your approach changed at all? Because I found like for me, coming from a swimming background, things come very naturally, but then when I had to start coaching it, it was like, all right, you’ve really got to take a step back because if you haven’t grown up swimming, then for those people learning later on, it’s very different. And I really had to come up with a different approach compared to how I was taught. Yeah, look, I’ve had exactly the same experience as you. And I love the work you do because I sort of feel your pain in terms of looking at the way we were taught to swim and the drills that we were given as kids. And you kind of step back and say, well, hang on, what’s this actually trying to achieve? And in most cases, it’s really difficult to get a connection between the type of drill that’s been prescribed

and some sort of specific improvement. So I really love the way you’ve broken the stroke down and explained it to swimmers in a way that’s easy for them to understand. But, you know, I had the same challenge when I first started coaching, frustrated the hell out of me that I couldn’t, it wouldn’t swim right, just swim right. I don’t know how to tell you to do it, right? Yeah. You should just do it this way. And I think the biggest learning I had was that people learn in different ways and one prompt or cue might work for one individual. But for another, it’s meaningless and they can’t get the head around it. So it’s important to have several different cues to try and get the same point across.

So thinking about a high elbow through your pull phase of your stroke. You know, I often use the term, you know, you’ve got to get over the barrel. That’s the prompt that I use because to me, that kind of makes sense. You know, you’ll have a high elbow if you visualize a sort of barrel under your armpit. But for a lot of people, that’s meaningless. That’s, you know, they can’t quite understand what that means. So you’ve got to find a different way of describing it. And usually two or three different ways before you can get something that will click. Yeah, that’s, yeah, it’s interesting you say that. I find the exact same thing. And I’ll then try and use that cue with someone else and it might work and it might fix it or it might just go, no, all right, let’s take a different approach. And I’ve had to explain that as well to the listeners that I coach like online who will send videos quite regularly because it’s, yeah, we’ll try something

that might not work and say, all right, that’s all right. Let’s just take a different approach and see if this works. And we eventually get there, but I think it’s important for them as well not to feel like they’re like defeated that that’s never gonna work because this one way didn’t work. Now, everyone’s different. And even for, you know, you’ve got the experience of coaching lots of people you might not get that cue or that approach right first time. So it does take a couple of attempts to get there. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think the funniest cue that I’ve come up with is one that I use in my life and I’ve tried to improve her swimming for about 30 years now. And, you know, she’s taken on the catch challenge and she’s doing your eight week faster freestyle program because she’s given up with me trying to coach her basically. But the one breakthrough we had before was she was struggling to get her shoulder elbow

and wrist aligned as they pass below her body. And she was always leading with her elbow and we used sort of various prompts to try and correct that. But the one that stuck with her was, I finally said to her, look, you’re swimming like a T-Rex. You know, like a big dinosaur with short arms and your elbow is pulling through first. And that was the prompt that sort of clicked something and I’m like, oh, now I get it. And when she looked at the video, she said, yeah, that’s exactly the way it looks and the way it feels. And now I know what I need to do to try and correct that. So I think you’ve just got to get creative sometimes and everyone’s got a different prompt that’ll stick with them. I like that one. That’s so good. I was actually doing analysis about her just before we started filming. And the same thing with the swimmer was the elbow was just pulling through much too soon before the hand had moved down.

And yeah, I’ll see if that one works for him. And I mean, I think of my, I’ve seen my wife swim once and I think it was on our honeymoon and she swam in the pool and I laughed because I thought this is so funny. I’ve never seen her swim but we’d been together for like, I don’t know, seven years or something or six years. And then when she saw me laughing, she stopped swimming. She’s like, I’m never swimming in front of you again. So I haven’t seen her swim since. So yeah, I get your pain. It’s different when it’s family. So yeah, whereas you’ve probably got the athletes coming to you, he’ll listen to every word that you say. But when it’s someone related, it’s a lot harder. It’s a lot more challenging, yeah, for sure. My dad was my coach and I think lucky for him that I was a good student and I listened to him and didn’t sort of play up like it you could find with a father, son sort of coaching duo. But yeah, it’s just,

and I’ve never really had a different coach in my sort of formative years as a teenager growing up. But yeah, I think it’s lucky for him that I listened because I look at my young kids now who are three and five and even just trying to get them to do some basic stuff in the pool, they do not listen. Whereas if it’s with the teacher or with their grandma, yeah, they’ll listen, but it’s so much harder that way. And with the athletes that you’re coaching, a lot of them, I mean, you’ve probably got a wide range of athletes, but where do you find most of them are with their swimming? Are they fairly new to it? Are they in survival mode? Or are they pretty comfortable? Yeah, so we specifically focus on more mature athletes in our coaching business. We feel like that’s where our strength is. People that maybe have got busy careers, busy family lives, trying to fit a lot in, may not have come into the sport until a little bit later on in their life

and are looking for sort of new challenges. So typically sort of in the older age groups, majority of them don’t have a swimming background. In fact, I’d say none of them have a swimming background. I’d love to have an athlete that can swim.

But most of them have sort of come into swimming late in life and have developed some pretty bad habits.

So I tend to, I prefer to actually video all of my athletes before I write a program for them, primarily so that for the sections of the workouts that I prescribe for them, I can be a bit more specific about the sort of drills that will give them some benefit and help them improve. I’m a strong believer in speed. In older athletes, getting faster in swimming is not about swimming more. It’s not about swimming harder. It’s about correcting stroke deficiencies. That’s where the gains are to be made. I think you’ve demonstrated that with a lot of your clients that just correcting a few sort of minor stroke deficiencies can yield a 10, 20, 30 second per hundred improvement. So I try and encourage my athletes to really focus on the drill portion of their workouts

and just being consistent. I’d much rather someone knock out two swims a week every week for six months than four swims one week and those swims the next week and those swims the week after that. So for me, swimming is all about consistency, doing it regularly. And it’s about really focusing on getting the technique rather than trying to kill yourself every time you’re in the pool and sprint against your mates. Yeah, I completely agree. And are those athletes, are they all local? So you’re able to film them yourself or you’re getting the sense of footage? Yeah, at the moment, they’re all local. So I’m actually at the pool with the GoPro filming them. But if they weren’t, yeah, we would, we try and get them to get a friend to video them so we could at least have a look at what we’re dealing with. And are you, with the footage, are you then doing the analysis there with them or are you like then sending it onto them

or how do you, what’s that process like for you? Yeah, it’s, we typically spend sort of half an hour in the pool with the camera and then I let them finish their workout while I download that video. And then once they’ve wrapped up their swim, we sit down together and I sort of walk them through what I’m seeing just at a very sort of high level first view. What I find is that I spot a lot of brief, I can actually get some quiet time and sit down and go over the videos a couple of times. So I’ll usually pick up one or two other things

when I’ve, when I sort of get home with the video and take a closer look at it on the bigger screen. And then usually, you know, my preference is only to give people one or two things to think about. You can usually spot, you know, maybe five or six deficiencies with a stroke. And the challenge for me is working out what are the one or two things that will give them the biggest bang for the buck. And usually it comes down to your body position as probably the primary one and then sort of focus on the catch is the other area where I see a lot of improvements. And after they’ve got those things to work on you then prescribing them specific drills and then explaining the purpose behind them. And then how much of those drills would you normally prescribe? Yeah, absolutely. We usually, there’s a handful of basic drills that are good for correcting a lot of issues in swimming as long as you give the swimmer the right prompt

on what they’re focused on during that drills or catch up is a great example where you can use that to correct a lot of sins as long as you’re directing the swimmer what aspects of the stroke are you trying to really focus on while you’re doing that drill? So I like to observe all the swimmers doing their drills to make sure that they’re executing them correctly. And then once you’ve seen the video and we know what they need to work on then I sort of focus them in on, okay when you’re doing that drill here’s what I’d like you to really think about in practice.

And then in the programming, what I normally do is I like to include drills every time they get in the pool. So it’ll usually range from somewhere between

500 and a K of drill work that they’ll be doing

and sort of mixing up the different drills to give them a little bit of variety but always focusing on those one or two things that are their biggest areas for improvement. Yeah, nice. I really like that approach and obviously we use something pretty much along those lines as well. And I was doing a gym session yesterday so I’ve started going to Kaiser which is a gym near me and one of the things that they have with their exercises it’s like it’s one round and to basically to like nine out of 10 fatigue for 90 to 120 seconds and they want you to go like four seconds out hold for two seconds, four seconds back hold for two seconds. So it’s four to four to and I’ve in this session yesterday as my third session there completely forgot about it and the coach pulled me up on it he’s like, okay, four to and I was like, okay, yeah like that’s one of the fundamental things that they’ve got but I just wasn’t even thinking about it

and it made me think like with these drills it’s so easy or even with your stroke it’s so easy to just forget these things that sometimes you need this little bit of a prompt especially in the early days and so was my third session and it made me I guess have a bit more understanding for people when they’re swimming that they’re not gonna remember all these things straight away it takes time especially if I can forget something so basic is like the fundamental timing of the movement that I’m doing. Yeah, I think that’s a really good example I’m going through something similar at the moment doing some rehab for an injury and my sports physio has given me videos of how to properly execute each of the exercises you’d like me to do but I find it down now for five, six weeks I’m continually going back to the video to take another look to say, well, have I got the right body position? Am I using the right breathing technique?

Have I got the right speed of this drill? So these sorts of gym exercises or rehab exercises I think have a lot in common with the drills we do in the pool and I think showing a person once how to do it is great but it needs regular reinforcement and regular oversight to make sure it’s been done correctly. Yeah, yeah, completely agree. And for you going forwards is there any events you’ve got coming up that you or any that you’ve got in mind?

Well, Ultraman broke me. It’s fair to say so I’m currently taking a little bit of time off particularly the sort of longer endurance training there’s only so many eight hour bike rides that you can tolerate in a year I think so I’ve kind of got a pretty clear slate for the next few months but then next year I’ve got the Busso 100 which is the new Busselton race in May that replaces the 70.3

I’ve got the Sunny Coast 70.3 and the Nusa Triathlon and I’m gonna have a go at the Cape to Cape Mountain Bike Race in WA which was just held this past week so a year from now. Where’s that go from? So that starts, it’s down in the Southwest of WA it’s based around the Margaret River region and goes from Augusta up to dwelling up over four days. So. Right, it must have started just this. Yeah, good for a bit of variety. Distances aren’t that great. So aren’t that great, there’s mountain biking but sort of 40 to 50k a day over a lot of single track and a little bit of fly trial. Yeah, nice. Well, that sounds like you got a busy schedule ahead and I mean, I imagine it’s for me when I’m racing, I’ve got something to train for I find them a much better coach. Do you find something similar? Absolutely, yeah. I’m completely lost without a goal right now. My training tends to get a little bit creative and inconsistent but like I said, the one thing that stays constant

is the swim training. So, regardless of whether I’ve got a race coming or not I’ll still get to the pool at least two to maybe three times a week. Just to keep, it’s good maintenance. Just keeps all the joints moving and keeps that base level of fitness going. I found that with not being out of the pool for so much this year. Like I’ve, I don’t know I’ve probably haven’t been more injured than I have this year. And it’s just like, I think it’s so good for you. As you said, for your joints, for your general movement and strength through your whole body. And it just, it loosens you up so much. And so, yeah, just like back and neck and all this sort of stuff I’ve never had. But so I put that down to just really I’d never taken longer than about two weeks out of the pool since I was like 12, I reckon. So I’ve got to get back to it but it is such a good sport that you can do all the way. All the way into your 100th year, I reckon.

Like there’s, it’s just such a great sport. And I’m glad that it’s something that I enjoy and something that, you know, just continue to do because yeah, as you said, like with running, it’s a great exercise to do and it’s a lot of fun but it’s a lot harder on the joints. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I’ve never been touched. We’ve never been injured swimming even with the volume of swimming that I do. I’m kind of lucky that my shoulders are quite robust. So that’s not an issue for me. But I have been injured when I don’t swim. So that lack of maintenance does lead to back injuries, joint pain, various other things. So for me, swimming is great maintenance and a good way to loosen up and relax and prepare for the other exercises that we do. Yeah, totally agree. And for those listening, what’s the best way to get in touch with you if they’d like to find out more about your coaching or any of those sorts of things? Yeah, we’ve got a very professional looking website

if I do say so myself, because I’ve prepared it. And that’s, people can find that at triaxcel.com.au. So that’s T-R-I-E-X-C-E-Y, try and excel. We also have a presence on Facebook and Instagram with that same tag, triaxel. Fantastic. Well, thanks so much for being on the podcast, John. I’ve really enjoyed it and good luck for those upcoming races. I need to book in something. I think it’s, there’s one open water swim that I’m going to book in soon when it opens, but yeah, it’s, you’ve sort of got the juices flowing when I think about swimming in Rotnest again and that kind of thing. It’s, yeah, I really would love to get fit. So I appreciate you being on the call. And yeah, thanks for being here. No problems, I’ve enjoyed it. And if you do come over for Rotnest, make sure you drop by and we’ll maybe even billet you at the house here and feed you up before the race. Yeah, sounds good. Thanks, John. No worries, mate.

Thank you. Thanks for listening to the Effortless Swimming Podcast. If you’d like us to help you become a faster, more efficient swimmer, go to www.effortlesswimming.com.