I look back on it and I’m like, of course, it’d be so much easier and it would have been so much greater to have it just so smooth. But I feel like the swim wouldn’t have been the swim that I did if it wasn’t choppy. Like that, the messy water and the conditions made, kind of like made me so much stronger in the head than what it just swimming flat water would have, because I had to be, had to become very determined to my own head to be like, I am doing this, I don’t care what’s going to happen in the water. I have to get in this water and do this. Welcome to the Effortless Swimming Podcast to show that help swimmers and triathletes love the water, become a better swimmer and live a better life. Here’s your host, Brenton Ford.

Welcome to the Effortless Swimming Podcast. My guest today is Holly Birkner. And Holly and I have swam a little bit when I was living in regional Victoria. And the reason I’ve got Holly on is she just completed a 100 kilometer swim from Port Sea to Port Melbourne, which is in the Bay here in Melbourne. She did that across five days. And I was following your journey on Facebook. Holly just glad I wasn’t in there, the one doing it, but pretty inspired by what you did. So first of all, welcome and congratulations. Thank you so much for that. What I quite like about your swim is it was, it’s very much to choose your own adventure. There was no set race. There was no, you know, there was nothing apart from you just decided to do it one day. What was that moment for you that you decided this was something that you wanted to go for? When we were in the middle of quarantine, lockdown last year, I was talking to my family and stuff like that. More talking about a swim I did when I was like 16

down the river. And I get very, I’m a very competitive person. And I almost got competitive with my old self. And I was like, wow, like 16 year old Holly was able to do this insane swim. I was like, surely I haven’t peaked yet in my swimming. So I was like, no, I have to do another swim. I was saying to dad, I was like, I’m too competitive to let my younger self win. So I went to bed that night and I literally laid in my bed and I mapped out a swim in the bay. And I was like, let’s see if I can go in an extra 20 Ks what I did when I was younger. So again, I was sitting in bed and I mapped out a plan. I woke up the next morning and I went to mom and dad and I was like, this is what I want to do 100 Ks in the bay. They kind of looked at me and like, oh, like, maybe we should, you know, give you a couple of days to really think about if you want to do this. And I stuck it on the fridge and I was like, no, this is what’s going to happen next year. We’re doing it.

That’s so good. And that the swim that you did before. So it was that was it down the Murray? Yeah. So it was from the Chuka Moama Bridge to Trembrew Whale. So it was 80 Ks pretty much followed like the Southern 80 course, the ski race. So we watched that for years. And I was so used to that race that I was like, I’m gonna, I’m gonna swim the 80 Ks. And across how many days was that? Because I remember when we were chatting to you, the first day you went hard. You did a big swim that first day and paid for it. So we did it. Our original plan was four days. And then I was like, no, I can do them three days. Like, we’re gonna do four days. So the first day was about 32 Ks or something like that. So we went, maybe it was even a bit longer. So we went way longer than I probably should have. And I just smashed myself that first day. And I really paid for it the second day, especially because I also were camping on the side of the river. And my mat, my sleeping mat went down. So I was sleeping on

the hard ground that night. And I was sunburned my face because I forgot sunscreen. And my arms were sore and hopped back in the water the next day. And I was like, Oh, this is gonna, this is gonna be so bad. It’s gonna hurt so much.

And how far to do that second day? Oh, I think it was about 25 or so. Because we made it the last day was going to be the shortest. So I don’t think we plan too well. Like, oh, we’ll go really long first day, medium second day, short third day. And the second day, I think was the hardest because I knew that I had to get in the water the next day after that. And I was like, far out like, how are you going to do this? This is going to hurt. What did you take that idea to your mum and dad when you were 16? You said I want to swim down. Yeah, I think I was actually like 14 and a half 15. And I was like, this is, this is what I’m going to do. And, um, yeah, of course, they looked at me and they’re like, sure thing, like you’re going to swim 80ks down the river, you’re like 15 years old. And I was like, no, I’m going to do it. Like, there’s no stopping me.

And then, yeah, we, I was meant to do it when I was 15, but there was floods and everything that hit the river. So we had to push it back later. And I was like, dad, I was like, no, like I’m going to be 16 now when I do it. It’s not as cool. Like I want to be 15.

But, um, I still got it done. And I was maybe I was happy that I was 16 because, yeah, that hurt.

Yeah. Well, look, I think of, um, I mean, your parents, um, I imagine be really proud of that, especially at that age, doing something like that. And, um, and then doing, having done the swim a couple of weeks ago, the 100k swim. So they, it wasn’t just you going out there and swim by yourself for 20k a day. It was a, quite a bit of a team effort. Um, do you want to talk a bit about what, what was involved with, I guess, the safety and the feeding and, um, and the support that you had around you to help you complete the swim successfully? Yeah. I had a huge support team. So I had my mom and dad. So my dad was kind of like my nutrition man, like, let’s get in the water now. We’re starting at sick, very lit, like, um, logistics kind of based. He was like, we’re doing this amount of k’s these days, you know, hop in at this time, hop out at this time, you’ll feed them. My mom was very more, um, supportive in like, she would, she’s a masseuse. So she’s done

sport massage and everything like that. So she would rub down my shoulders each night, my back, um, get me, she does also Pilates. So she got me through Pilates movements to help stretch each night, um, each night. Um, and she also had a role in nutrition because she knows a lot about the amount of energy, like calories that I need, different things like that. Um, and then I had my two brothers and they were pretty much their support was just making me laugh. Like they would, they would just say different things to me or like, throw food at me in the water or just do something like that. They would just be like, like shake my head and laugh with them, especially, um, my brother’s just younger, me too. He’s younger. He swam a lot with me. He did 10 k’s on the first day with me and he hadn’t swum for weeks beforehand, but he’s like, oh, I did 10 k’s with you the first day. So on, yeah, on the second day he hopped in, did 10 k’s with me and then, um,

we were singing songs together when we popped our head up to eight and he had sprinkles of coconut oil because he thought it was tasty and delicious. So just little things like that made me laugh. And then I also had my partner come along with me. He was like my emotional support kind of like when I was breaking down, he was like, no, no, you can do this. Like, let’s keep going. And I was like, oh, like, no, get me out of the water. This was a stupid idea. Like, why did I decide to do this? He was like, no, no, you’ll be fine. Get back in again. So like, and then I also had Matt Alice who came along as well and he was like, we wouldn’t have been able to do it without him because he bought his jet ski and everything like that. And he was a swimmer with me and just another person that would make me laugh along the way. So as long as I had good company, good people to make me laugh, then it was going to be fine.

So yeah, it was really a great group of support.

Yeah, no. And the window that you chose was an interesting one because you just kind of got a bit unlucky with the weather. And I remember when you said, I’m going to be starting on the, what was it, the, yeah, the Wednesday. And I looked at the winds and the weather and I saw it and went, wow, that’s going to be interesting with these strong, really strong, westerly winds and you’re swimming sort of across it. And it’s just basically like onshore slop in the bay where it’s, it makes for very hard, a very hard slog. Now, so you planned for five days. And the fifth day was, well, on the coast, it was the biggest swell they’d had on it in a decade. Now you’re in the bay, so it’s kind of protected from that, but it didn’t mean that it was protected from the wind and the rain and everything else. So you had to rest on day five and then finish on day six. So how, how did the weather sort of have been straight for you across the week? And then what did it mean for your

initial support boat and a few other things along the way? Well, day one started off great. It was, we started like six a.m. in the morning, so it’s still a little bit dark. It was so flat. I could see the bottom. It was beautiful clear water down the Lake Porto Sorrento area. It’s always beautiful. And I was able to smash out 12Ks in about three hours, just under three hours. So I was flying. And then I finished day one and I was like, okay, like, that was all right. The conditions were good. I was like, everything else will be fine. Then day two was the same. It was sunny. It was warm. We were swimming along comfortably. There was not much of a chop, like a little bit of one, but not too bad. And we got to the Mornington Pier where I was meant to finish on day two. And my mum and dad were like, oh, maybe you should like swim a bit extra today. And I was like, why? I’m here now. I might as well just get out.

They’re like, oh, the weather’s not too good tomorrow. Maybe you should swim just like a little bit further. And I was like, all right, I’ll swim up to the other end of the beach and then I’ll hop out from there. Because when I see my finish point, my mind like switches off and it’s like outside, like, yeah, finish, good job for the day. But I was like, okay, I’ll get to the other side. And yeah, then after day two, that’s when everything started to go a bit downhill. So we had a boat that was following me and because I was about okay or so off the beach. So the boat is where I would have my lunch

after three hours. And then I’ll hop back in the water again. So after at the end of day two, we were getting ready to go in and we’re like, oh, we’ll see tomorrow morning, like, we’re going to start here. And they’re like, oh, nah, like, we’re not going to turn up tomorrow. We’re like, oh, what? They’re like, nah, it’s too windy. Like, when does when do you want to start up again? And I was like, oh, no, I’m swimming tomorrow. He was like, he was like, oh, well, we weren’t we weren’t becoming with you. So when that got told to us, mom and dad were like, like, oh, my God, like, what do we do? So they didn’t really want to tell me. They were just like, we’ll plan this without Holly. You have the jet skater time. Yes, we had the jet ski for the first day. And that was the one that was the vessel pretty much that was like next to me the whole time, whereas the boat was a bit further in front. And the jet ski would hand me my food

on my hourly breaks. So yeah, we were like, oh, like, what are we going to do? We have like X amount of people that are supporting me. And I’ve got to come in, or I get on land or a boat or something like that for my three hour break to have food.

So like, okay, like, we’ll swim a little bit closer to shore, we’ll have a jet ski next to me. And then we’ll have land people like, okay, we can do that, we’ll figure this out.

And we were, I remember we’re laying in the hotel room, we were staying each night. And mom was massaging my arms and we had the news on and the weather came up for the next day. And it was atrocious. And I was like, I was like, someone who needs to turn that off, like, I can’t see that I need to just, I need to be in my own head. I was like, I can’t, I don’t want to see the weather. I just want to know that I have to swim. So I have to do, I have to get from Mornington Pier, which is where I was going to start the next day to Bob Beach, which was about 20 Ks. And yeah, so we woke up the next morning and we went down to the beach and I was standing there looking out and the water was so choppy, you could almost, yeah, you could always body surf in that water. I was like, oh no, but my brother was great. He was like, we’ll hop in together. And the good thing was, it was a southwesterly. So there was like a little bit of a push towards the way I was

heading. So when I, before I hopped in, I, my family is very supportive and stuff like that. But I think they’ll be very realistic looking at the conditions, looking at how far I have to swim and being like, oh, I don’t know if you’re going to make it. Like, we’ll just try to get to Frankston, which was about going to be about the halfway point of that day. And then CB hit the Bob Beach. And they were like, oh, like, I don’t know if we’re going to be able to make it. I’m going to be very choppy when I have to pull you out. And I think because I got all those things coming into my head, people like a boat person pulling out saying it’s too windy,

different people in the support crew going, oh, it’s a bit too windy. We’re not sure if we can do it. I think in my head, I was like, you know what, no, I’m going to prove you all wrong. I’m going to swim to Bon Beach. That’s where I have to get to. I don’t care what anyone else says to me. I’m going to get to my finish point. I don’t care how long it takes me. It can take me to 6pm, but I’m going to make it to Bon Beach that day. And it ended up being my quickest day. I got out of the water around one o’clock because I think in my head I was just like, no, you can do this. It doesn’t matter what can happen. You’re going to swim there. And I got to Frank’s and dad was like, oh, okay. He’s like, we can definitely get to Bon Beach, but not too far now. And I was like, yep. So he told you I was going to get there. Like, what a breeze. I think I know how to motivate you. Tell you you can’t do it. Yeah. If I get told that I can’t do something, it’s always been motivated to make me do it.

Um, literally since I was like nine years old and dad’s like, no, you can’t beat me in the pool. I’ll be like, I can beat you now. You just watch me. Um, so yeah, that’s definitely always been a bit of a pusher when people kind of doubt me. I’m like, well, I’m going to show you that I can do it. Like, doesn’t matter what’s going to happen. Like, yeah, it’s always going to make me get there no matter what. So yeah, we finished day three and I was like, oh, what a breeze. Like, tomorrow’s day four. And then the last day doesn’t even count in my head. I was thinking that I was like, day four is the last hard day because day five, I can see the spirit of Tasmania where Port Melbourne is. I’m going to be able to get there easy peasy. Um, yeah, day four was, I feel like the ocean gods were really testing me and decided to put me through hell. I, um, I woke up and we went down to Bomb Beach and the winds had changed to like a

northwesterly. So I was getting smacked in the face and, um, the worst thing was is my nutrition was really bad. I, every time I got out of the ocean, I just felt sick, like all through the night. I just couldn’t eat anything, which was really bad. Um, I was in a massive calorie deficit, could not get any food down me, just didn’t really feel like anything. Dad was like force feeding me peanut butter toast each morning. I was like, no, like I’ll have a slice. Like I don’t want to eat anything. Um, so when I hopped in on day four, after previously swimming three days, not having heaps of food, being tired. Um, it was rainy that day, really windy. I think we had gusts of up to like 60, 70 K an hour gusts. So it was white caps everywhere and every lap time I would turn to the side. I’d just get a mouthful um, ocean water and I, the day before it took me an hour to swim about four Ks. This day it took

me an hour to swim just two Ks because I was getting pushed back every time I would get a bit further. I would get pushed back again and I was looking at the shoreline and I popped my head up to my mom and dad on jet ski and I was like, am I moving anywhere? I was like, I don’t think I’ve left bomb beach. I was like, I’m just getting pushed back. Every time I see a building, it takes me like 30 minutes to get past that one building. And I think because of that, it was getting really disheartening. And I was just like, I was swimming by myself. I was like, this is ridiculous. Um, so I got five K done and I popped my head up and my, my lips were blue. I was freezing cold. I couldn’t heat myself up anymore. Um, and mom and dad were like, Oh God, like, we’re going to have to take you in when there’s no way you can keep going like this. So we went into the beach and we found some random life saving club thing.

And they sat me in it, grabbed a space blanket, wrapped me up in it. I couldn’t like, really undress myself properly because I was so cold. I had heart failure. Um, and then I was sitting in that life saving club because it’s just completely empty. No one wants to be at the beach that day. And I was just like having a full breakdown. I was like, I don’t want to get back in the water. I don’t want to put my wetsuit on again. Like, and I think it was more emotional because my, like I knew in my head in the back of my mind, I had to get in the water. Like, mom and dad were like, do we want to go home? And I was like, no, no, no, just give me five minutes. I need to like break down and build myself back up again and then get in the water.

They had to warm me up. They tried to get some food into me and went to a cafe, stuff like that. And then I was sitting in the corner of the cafe and everyone was talking and in my head, all I could think was, oh, wow, you have to get back in this water and swim another 15k. It’s like, this is going to take you forever. And it was just like in my head. I was like, oh my God, like, how do you think you’re going to be able to do this? Um, it’s northwesterly. There’s white caps everywhere. Anyway, and then I came up with the idea. I was like, dad, why don’t we drive to my finish point for the day and I’ll swim back to my start point. And then at least the waves will be behind me. So I was like, is that cheating? He’s like, no, you’re still doing the case. He’s like, he’s like, the water’s atrocious. So it’s like, you’ve already swam 10ks because you’ve just been pushed back every time you swimming. So we drove up to Sandingham and we hopped in the water

and we started swimming and my brother, this is, this is how choppy it was. My brother was on the back of the jet ski being my nutrition person, my fuel person, handing me the food. And I climbed on for one of my fuel brakes and my dad started handing me the stuff. And I was like, oh, what’s going on? And he’s like, your brother’s been seasick for the last 30 minutes. He’s over the start of the jet ski throwing up. And I was like, I just, it was, it almost made me laugh so much because someone else was in pain. And I was like, I’m so sorry, like, I’ve still got two hours to go. I was like, you’re going to have to sit on the back of this jet ski for two hours feeling seasick. So he was on the back. My dad was trying to watch me watch the waves so the jet ski didn’t roll, make sure my brother didn’t fall off the back when he was leaning over the side of vomiting. And it was just an absolute mess out there. I don’t,

I don’t, when I think back to it, I’m like, I don’t know how we survived that. Like, we should have been headed towards Tasmania or something that’s pushed away. Like, it was, it was so messy. Yeah, I mean, I saw the video of you maybe getting out that day at the end of it. Like, you might have posted that on Facebook. And it was like, it is some of the worst conditions I’ve ever seen down in the bay. It was, it was horrendous. And actually, it was that day or the next day. So the next day when you had to postpone that there was people surfing at St Kilda. I saw a footage of people surfing at St Kilda, which is normally pretty flat. You know, there’s nothing, but yeah, the wind was just that bad. And so the next day you woke up and what happened then? I was so angry. We were staying in Brighton and mum and dad woke up to go put the cars in like the different, like the star point, the finish point, so we could get everywhere. And they went up to my star point for the day

and they came back to the hotel room with me up to the like, look, you’re gonna have to postpone the swim. And I was fuming. I was like, excuse me. I was like, this is my last day. I was like, I don’t care what the conditions are. I was like, put me in the water. Mum and dad looking at me like, no way. Like, we can’t actually do it. It’s gonna, like the jet skis gonna roll or you’re gonna like, just push their way. And I was like, no, I was like, put me in the water. And then as I was saying it, dad got like a weather warning on his phone for lightning in the bay. And I was like, and he’s like, we cannot hop in the water when there’s lightning. I was like, I know, but I just, I was like, surely I can swim like late in the day. They’re like, no, I’m sorry, but you’re gonna have to wait for tomorrow. And that was like so, like, I felt so angry and just frustrated because I was like, I’ve just been looking forward to this

last day. Like, it was going to be the end of it. I was going to finish. And yeah, he was like, nah, sorry, we have to stop now. It’s like a hot damn. So what did you do to kill time and play yourself? We ended up coming home and that was probably actually a blessing because I got food into me that day. I was, because I wasn’t getting into the water. I wasn’t exerting myself. I wasn’t tired. We came home and I, a lot of food for the next day because I didn’t realize it because it was raining all that day. The water and the temp in the bay had dropped like maybe two or three degrees because I hopped back in the next day down Sandringham. And it was so icy, like the water around my head. I was like, thank goodness I have food in me. Like, I have no idea how I’ve gotten through this. If I didn’t have anything yet in me, I’m pretty sure the water quality was quite bad. I came out of the water with like brown around my face. And

Mom and Dad were like, oh, like, maybe we shouldn’t check to see what the water quality is. We’ll just hope that your immune system kills this. Yeah, it’s probably a good thing. The comment, who does it? It’s not the EPA, but they do a water quality report up until the end of like, maybe March or the end of like February or something. So I don’t know if they’re still doing it then. Yeah, check anyway, just in case it was like really bad. And then Mom and Dad were like, maybe we shouldn’t put you in here. Yeah, yeah, just don’t look at it. That’s what I’ve done. If we’ve ever had a swim, like I just never factor in the water quality. If there’s been rain, it’s going to be gross. Yeah, I was like to Dad. I was like, this week, I don’t really want to know the wind. I don’t want to know the rain. I don’t want to know the water quality. I just want to get from point A to point B every day. And that’s all I need to do.

And what was different about the swim than what you expected going in?

I think I didn’t realize how much internal motivation I had to have. Because I was like, I’ll put my head up every hour and talk to someone and every three hours I get in the boat and I’ll talk to someone. I was like, this is going to be like a breeze. I’ll be fine. But I didn’t realize that my head was going to be down in water for six to seven hours a day. And I had my own thoughts to deal with for that whole time. Like even though I had companies swimming, you can’t talk to each other. Not like when you go for a ride or run with someone. You’re with your own thoughts, no matter what. And you have to deal with everything that comes into your head. And sometimes it was really deep thoughts. And then sometimes it was literally just like one, two, three, one, two, three. And it was just counting in my head because I was like, what else am I going to do? But then sometimes I was like, I think my brother showed me this open water swimmer that did like 100Ks and 12 hours or

something like that with a really good tide. And I was like, and when I was swimming along and I think it was like day four or something, I was like, I’m not one of these open water swimmers. Like, why are you doing this? Like you’re just fooling yourself. There’s no way you can actually do this. And then as soon as I thought started to pop my head, that’s when I started to get cold. It’s like when I started to hurt my arms hurt more. And I was like, okay, you really need to block these thoughts out and you just have to become more like, yeah, this is easy. Like, oh, what’s, it’s just swimming. You’re just swinging your arms over for seven hours. Like, you can do that. What a, what a breeze. So it became very like one thought or the other when I was really tired, I could only count or I could only play a game in my head.

So yeah, it was even my own thoughts. I would, on my, when I used to go to school, I would catch a bus every morning. And I had a bus route that had 16 stops on it. And I would try to remember each stop that we went to. And then I would also try and list each person that hopped on at the different stops. And because I went from year five to year 12 to that school, so many people changed. So I was swimming along and I was like, okay, yeah, this person hops on here and then that person hops on there. And it really, it made three Ks go so quick. And I was like, oh, like, break time, like that’s awesome. Whereas other times I was like, how has five minutes gone by? Like that took forever just to get one K down. Yeah, that’s one of the hardest things I find about, about long distance swimming. And like I’ve done a whole lot of it, but whenever I’ve had those big sessions where it might be, you know, eight, 10, or like 15 K, like open water, so it’s like, yeah, it’s just being in your own head.

It’s a long time to spend there. And just occupy your mind for that, for that long can be difficult. I found that it was okay when it was good conditions and I was swimming next to someone and it was nice and I could appreciate the view and the warm weather and all of that. But yeah, you didn’t have any of that part from the first day. So it’s just when it’s just a grind, that is that’s really hard to put up with. So what did you with your thoughts like, what did you tell yourself when you were going into those deeper thoughts or when you’re being negative about what you told yourself, I’m not one of those distance swimmers, that sort of thing? Yeah, I kind of, I started to think kind of more that this was going to be an 80% mental thing and 20% physical. Because when I hopped in the water, my partner was like, oh, have you done like a 10 K of water swim before? And I was like, no, like, this is like my first time I’m going to do 20 K

is like whatever. And then when I got into my reports, I was like, wow, I was like, okay, maybe you’re not meant to be here. And then as soon as I started to think those, I was like, I was like, no, you’re going to do this for a reason, like you’re going to swim this for a reason. I was like, every time I take a stroke, like I’ve, I kind of started to think more that there’s like a comfort zone around everyone. And each time I took a stroke to get further into my swim, I was like, my comfort zone is just growing and I’m getting bigger. And like everything I do here is going to make me grow in some way or the other. And yeah, like those dark thoughts, it was insane how when those happened, my swimming slowed down. I found it harder. I got colder. My arms hurt more. I felt rashes on my body more. Whereas then all of a sudden I started to imagine myself. It was kind of like I imagined myself swimming with my past selves. It was very weird.

I think I got a little bit too wippy in my head. I also started thinking about nine-year-old Holly when she first started swimming and how I would swim up and down the pool and I was so keen just to swim anywhere. And I would imagine her swimming next to me and I’d have like a conversation almost with her. And then I would have 16-year-old Holly who did the river swim saying that like, oh, like, come on, you really think that you’re as fast as me? And I would always like race myself. It was very weird. And I would have like my 18-year-old self who was in year 12 who didn’t really swim going, wow, like you’ve actually done really well to still be swimming now. So I had like, yeah, these past selves of me kind of swimming, which was really weird. But then also the mental thing was kind of funny because I had so many great comments coming through like, oh, you’re amazing, like you’ve done so much, like, blah, blah, blah. It almost gave me this emotional side and it made me kind of like

care in a weird way. Like I felt all of a sudden like emotional. I was like, oh, people really care about me. Like that’s so sweet. And then as soon as those caring thoughts came in, I kind of had to shut them down because then I was like, oh, like, I kind of felt soft in the inside in a weird way. I was like to mum and dad, I was like, is it bad that I don’t read these comments? I was like, I can’t read them because as soon as I read them, I start to care and I start to feel emotional. And then if I feel emotional, I don’t want to swim because I just want to be comfortable in a bed in warmth. So I kind of had to become like this animal kind of thing where I don’t have human emotions. I just have swimming, eating, sleeping, and that’s all I’m going to be doing. So yeah, I really had to like block those bits out and be like, no, you’re just here to swim. You’re not here to talk to anyone. It’s no external motivation. Just become very internal to yourself. And yeah, whatever thought

you have, you’re just going to deal with it. You’re going to mail on it and then you’re going to let it pass. And that’s going to have to happen for seven hours a day, every day. Yeah. Thanks for bringing that up and being willing to share it because like those thoughts, I think a lot of people who have done maybe something similar to you have thought about them and but maybe not express them because it’s like, this is a bit weird. Maybe I’m the only one who I’ve never swum to next to past versions of myself. But like I know with the like with those comments and that sort of thing, it’s like that can distract from what you’re actually doing in a way. And it’s like, it’s good to get it at the end afterwards. But not while you’re still going like it doesn’t sometimes it just doesn’t really help because it’s yeah, just takes you out of the out of the moment a little bit. Yeah. And I said that to mom and dad. I was like, am I a bad person that I don’t want to read these that I’m not

replying? I was like, I feel like I’m a bad person because everyone’s so sweet and all the messages are so kind. And normally if I read them, I’d be like, thank you so much. But in that weird five days, it was like this little blip of my life when just nothing mattered. And like my head was like the only thing that I was in like even conversations I would just kind of blank out of. And I was like, no, like I’m in this complete different world for myself. And I was like to my mom and dad was like, I just can’t read them because as soon as I start reading them, I feel like emotional. And then I want to be in home in bed in a warm comfy environment. And I don’t want to get back into that ocean. Whereas yet getting into the ocean and swimming for seven hours five days a week is just it’s not kind of human. Like you’re not meant to really do that and your mind’s not really meant to be doing that. So I was like, I have to become non human kind of

experience. Yeah, I think it’s like, like you’re there, but you’re not actually like looking out at the world in a way. And like, I remember being, this is at the,

like, yes, it was start line of Iron Man and then similar for the Rot Nessum as well. It was kind of like beforehand, it’s like, everyone’s saying, yeah, good luck and all that sort of stuff. And it’s like, yep, thanks. But you’re not really taking it in. You’re just like your heads in a different spot. But yeah, you need to do it. Otherwise, you’re, you get distracted, you get emotional about stuff and you think too much about the task, task ahead. It’s like, no, you’ve just got to get yourself into the zone. And just like, yeah, you’re looking out there, but you’re actually switching off from all of it really. And you’re like, I can’t hear anything and I can’t see anything, but like the first thing that I have to do. And I feel like that Fridge Mount Day two, I hopped in the water and I was like, Oh my God, like this is, this is so painful. Like my arms are so sore. I was like, you’re not even halfway today.

Like you tomorrow, like today’s not even going to be halfway yet. You still got so much longer to go. And as I was swimming along, I was like, it’s not like it sounds very morbid, but everything comes to an end as even though that sounds really sad and depressing, things come to an end. And no matter what that day was going to come to an end and that swim leg was going to come to an end. And I just had to get there one way or another. And I feel like now ever since coming back, now I think that all the time, I’m like, this assignment will end or this worksheet will end. Everything’s going to end at some point. It’s just how you’re going to get there and how you’re going to occupy yourself for that small, tiny little time of like, I felt like day two was never going to end. And now it’s been two weeks since that swim had even happened. And I was like, wow, it’s over now. Like everything’s going to stop. The pain is going

to stop. You’re going to hear we’re going to get better. And I was just like, wow, like, yeah, okay, you can do this then. Like one way or the another, you’re going to end up in bed tonight and it’s going to be fine. Yeah, that’s a that’s a good approach to it. And yeah, really mature approach to it as well, which is, which is fantastic because it’s, it is just got to do what you have to do to get get to the end of the day. And I’m like, I’m looking at that. Have you seen the iron cowboy? Have you seen? Yes, my family loves all that. That’s what I grew up with in my house. So like, seeing him, I don’t know, he’s up to 55, maybe 55. I managed to 55 days so far. Like, that is that is interesting, just like to imagine what he might be going through to get through every day. And then knowing you’ve only got a couple of hours sleep a night and then do it all over over again. So, but that kind of approach that you that you mentioned,

it’s yes, it’s these little mental things that you’ve got to, you’ve got to use. Yeah. And I was even talking to my dad, because he’s got an Ironman event happening in June. And I was like, just remember all this training and doing, it’s going to end at one point. I was like, even when you’re think when you’re in the middle of the race, think back to like a training session that is so hard. And you’re like, well, that ended eventually. Like when we did our 100 hundreds in the pool, I was like, at number 70, I was like, this is never going to end. This is ridiculous. And then I was doing the ocean swim. I was like, wow, that was in December. Like that was ages ago. I finished that, that finished that day, finished that pain, finished. So this pain will also finish one way.

Yeah. Yeah, that’s right. This, this can’t be too bad. Everything as yeah, I keep saying to everyone, it sounds so morbid when you say everything’s going to end, but it’s also kind of a thing that can help you get through different challenges. Like you will be able to get through this one point. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And it makes me appreciate things a whole lot more as well. And like this, this year too, with like the, well, last year, I spent so much more time at home because we weren’t traveling or that sort of stuff. And my kids were two and four then and they’re nearly a year older. And it’s just like, not going to get this time back. So it certainly helps you change your approach to, to things. It’s like, I want to spend a bit more time with the, with the kids and, and doing the things that I really want to do. So it’s just, you know, you don’t, you don’t, yeah, you kind of filter out what’s,

what’s actually important to that way. And I think with the stuff that you’re doing, have you found that you’ve levelled up a bit with what you think is, is possible? Because I remember when I first started running, which I started to do probably when I was 19, 20, I, you know, like a five K would be like, well, it was pretty good, you know, six and six K. But you know, then just as I’ve done more and I’ve, I’ve done some bigger weeks, like over lockdown, did a 98 or 97 K week, which I would have never thought possible before. But it’s just like in your mind, you just start to level up and you start to get more comfortable with bigger distances. And it’s the same thing, swimming as well. Have you found that that’s been the case over the last, like six years or so? Yeah, when I was, I remember when I was competitive swimming, so I used to swim mainly in the pool and do all that type of stuff. When a coach would walk right up on the board that we’re

going to do a five K set, I was like, Oh my God, this is going to hurt so much. Like, yeah, I’m going to be exhausted. There’s no way I can get through five Ks. And now, if I see a five K set, I’m like, Oh, like, that’s okay. Like, you can do that easily. It’s going to take like an hour or so. But then it’s funny because now if I saw a, like 10 K set, like in my mind now, I’d still be like a little bit like, Oh, whoa, like, that’s pretty far. Whereas then if I keep swimming like this, then maybe one time I’m going to look at the 10 case and be like, Oh, that’s, that’s an easy training day, like whatever, like you can do that. And it was funny because I because I’ve never, the longest I’d swam in the ocean straight before I did the swim was I think maybe eight K or something like that. Like it wasn’t so funny. And, and when dad went mentioned to me like a year or two ago, he’s like, Oh, do like the 10 K Williamtown swim.

And I was like, 10 K is no way. I can’t swim 10 Ks in the ocean. I like, that’s ridiculous. And he was like, Oh, give it a try. I was like, no way. I can never swim 10 Ks in the ocean. And then, yeah, I skipped 10 Ks and went straight to 20 Ks. And I was like, Oh, 10 K is easy now. Like I can go to do 10 Ks next year, like whatever. So yeah, it’s funny that all sudden I was watching this video about how your, everyone has this little comfort zone circle around them. And each time you do something outside of that, it just grows bigger and bigger. And I feel like during COVID and lockdown, everyone’s kind of comfort zone or circle shrunk so much more because we didn’t go out, we didn’t see people didn’t exercise as much. We didn’t really do anything that was a bit uncomfortable. Whereas after that swim, I feel like my things that I can put inside my comfort zone is so much more like I could be like, yeah, I can do a 21 K run. It’s

not going to hurt that much. I’m not running for seven hours. Or I’m being like, yeah, I can go out and ride for five hours. I don’t mind that anymore. Like everything’s going to be fine. Like, you know what you can do. You know what your mind can do. And you know how to sit in your mind for seven hours a day. So yeah, I’m almost like, yeah, that’s fine. What’s the worst that can happen? Yeah, I find a lot of enjoyment in expanding that comfort zone as well. When I first started running clinics, I mean, I was, I consider it young, but I was 20,

first one I did, I was probably 25. And we had probably a dozen people there. And I’ve never run any before. And so I was like, had to come up with the whole thing. And, and I was so nervous going into it. And like, I planned it, you know, meticulously for the whole week before it. And I was just so nervous about the whole, the whole thing. And it went okay. I don’t think it was, it was amazing. But it was like, you know, it really gave me the sweats just before it. Because, and I was presenting to, to adults, you know, a lot of them are in their 40s and 50s. And I had this complex or so, why would they want to listen to me? Like they probably know more about it than I do. But, you know, you do it enough times. And then you just get comfortable speaking to people and delivering in front of bigger groups and that sort of thing. And we had clinics in New Zealand, probably two years ago now. And there was, I think,

they were like pretty sort of big group clinics of maybe 30 or 40 swimmers each. And, and we had like three of those in a day. So over the course of like 100 and something people at these, these clinics. And, and like it was, it was awesome. Like it just got a lot of energy from it. And just for me personally as well, like it felt great to be able to do that in front of so many people. And yeah, I was a bit nervous that you always get that if there’s, there’s bigger groups. But I really enjoy that, that part of just trying to get better and, and grow as a person. And I’ve had a similar thing surfing. So last Friday, there was really big swell and went into probably the biggest waves I’ve been. And like on the face, it was 12 foot pretty easily. And it was out there. But it’s just like, if you focus on your breathing, and I was sort of been watching, as a surf coach that I really like, and he’s talked about this, it’s like,

don’t spend all your energy paddling out, just like, just relax, you know, you’ll eventually get out there, the water will sort of make its way through, and you’ll get out there. And, and then just got to focus on your breathing. And like, just as you’re paddling into a wave, you’ve got to relax. It’s so very similar to swimming. Like if, as soon as you’re trying to muscle it, and your tense, like you’re just, you’re not going to move well or perform well. So, yeah. And then after that, I feel like, all right, I’m comfortable here. And I can start to start to do more with it. And it’s, yeah, it’s learning about those things and kind of getting the skills and the education around, what is it required to go to the next level with it? That is, that’s all part of the journey. And for you, you know, what, how have you, how have you found the last couple of weeks in that, the post race, where, you know,

things have quietened down, you go back to normal life, you haven’t been the pool yet because of a new infection. So how has that been for you on the, on the come down? Yeah, it was, it was quite weird, because I, I kind of came back and then had to hop straight back into uni, Simons and working and different things like that. And one of those people that normally drives around was like, loud music, like singing with car and stuff like that. And I almost just kind of, like had no music turned everything down. Cause I, it’s like I almost couldn’t handle the noise again. Like I was like, no, like I’ve got time to think, like I want to think again. I was like, no, maybe I’m not done with, you know, having my own thoughts kind of thing. And yeah, and it was kind of weird when I was talking to mom and dad, and I like, is it weird to kind of go straight back into life and everyone else has just been going

around doing the same thing like they normally do. And you’ve just come out of the ocean after spending five days. And I was like, yeah, cause I don’t really know how to explain. Like when people asked how did this go, I was a bit like, oh, good. Like I didn’t know how to put five days into words. And like all the thoughts coming through my head. And they’ll never understand a day though. No, no, I don’t understand what you went through. Yeah, I just couldn’t really voice what it actually was. And they’re like, oh, do you feel different? I was like, yeah, but I can’t really explain why I feel different. I just do like everything is just a little bit off to what it normally felt like beforehand. And I just kind of in my own head, I felt like a bit more like, yeah, I can do anything like this is everything’s easy. Like, and it was kind of bad because my mom and dad were like, you have to make sure that you’re not harsh with people because you’ve experienced something that’s

changed you. But other people happen. So you have to make sure that you’re still like, oh, I understand you and stuff like that. Like you can’t be harsh with people be still understanding. I was like, okay, I remember I got to get out of this like animal kind of mindset and be back to a human being when I’m like, have empathy and I care for people. I was like, I’ve completely forgot that that’s what I have to do in normal day to day life. So yeah, I kind of came back and I took me like two or three days of just kind of being this weird, like kind of zombie person walking around, like not really engaging too well. And then yeah, I slowly snapped back into it and I was like, this is how you socialize with people again. Like this is how you’re going to talk to them. Yeah, I think very weird. It’s I think part of it’s you’re in your own head that long. And you need to and you need to think only about yourself to be able to get through it. And so it takes a few days to

transition to being a social person again. And also like, I think as well for me, after you do something big in the back of your mind, you’re kind of like, you guys don’t know what I’ve done. And you feel a bit superior, you feel like you’re above everyone else in a way. And yeah, so you’ve sometimes got this attitude or this presence about you where you’re better than everyone else. And so it’s about, yeah, just like, hang on a second, let’s come back to it a little bit. Yeah, yeah. And especially for you, you know, with the event that you did across the five days, you finish your swim at two o’clock in the afternoon, go and get some, some food, you might go to the cafe, people are having their lattes, you know, like that. And it’s like, you have no idea what I’ve just been through to you. Yeah, they just don’t like, when I climbed out of the water day four, and we went to a cafe to warm me up, I looked like, like, and I actually looked like a sea

monster. My hair was everywhere. I had goggle marks, I kept hair lines. I looked like a mess and I was sitting in this like busy cafe on a Saturday morning where everyone’s, you know, out having smashed avocado and a latte. And I was sitting there and I feel like people were just looking at me because I just looked like a mess. And I was like, I was kind of like, I don’t even care what I look like right now. Like I just don’t want to get back and you’re just going to have to deal with this. And I just did, I had weird people kind of like, looking at me and I was like, if only you knew the pain I’ve been through. Yeah, I’m homeless. I can pay for this food. I was kind of like, if only you know what I’ve just been experiencing for the last two hours, then you’ll understand why I look the way I look.

Yeah, that’s right. And I was, but I was in my own head, like, beforehand I would kind of be like, oh, like, I’m so judged. Like I look so terrible and all that stuff. And I, in my head, I was like, I don’t care. Like there’s not a single part, because there’s bigger things in my head right now than what I look like when I’m out eating breakfast. Like I have to get back in some three hours for like, in some torrential water. So I was like, I don’t care if you think I look terrible. I’ve got bigger things going on in my own head. Yeah, yeah, it’s a good point to get to though. Like I found that that changed a lot for me after. Probably after having kids more than anything, whereas like I always going to come up with like, you know, food and stains and stuff on your clothes and you’re going to look tired. You’re going to, you’re going to feel like crap. And so it’s just for me, it’s like, I just don’t care what anyone thinks. You know, if I’m going down the street

and there’s like, you know, you dirty and all of that sort of stuff. And then it’s the same thing as well. Like I’ll find that after, after surfing or after swimming, like in the the ocean, like there’s been times where I’ve gone into supermarkets or into cafes and I’ve been swimming in the ocean or surfing and I’ve got like, what feels like a liter of water at my nose or in my head and you got to lean over and it can’t get that nose waterfall. Don’t judge me, I swear. But it’s funny because I feel like for a lot of, when I was in school, I, there wasn’t many people that were really, like many girls that were really into sports. Like after year 10 or 11, I think I was the only one who’s actually doing a sport. And I feel like everyone stopped because of that judgment they felt from other people. Whereas I was turning up to school stinking like chlorine with wet hair and looking like a mess. So I think because I went through register high school like that,

I wasn’t, I don’t get too phased in life anymore. I don’t feel like if people are judging me, I’m like, that’s, that’s fine. Like I’m used to it now. I’ve had people, you know, seeing in the class and going, oh, what the hell smells like the pool in here. I’m like, yeah, that’s me. Yeah. Like, sorry, I was in the pool for two hours this morning. Whereas then, yeah, I feel like sometimes it happens to the boys, but I feel like it’s more with girls. We often stop after year 10, 11, because we just feel like we’re judged too much. Whereas I wish like even now when I’m coaching girls around the age that I was when people stopped swimming, I’m like, no, keep going, like keep pushing through this. I was like, it’s going to suck at school and people are going to look at you weirdly, especially because a lot of people think it’s quite un-lady like to be very competitive. And I was the person that was like, I’m going to

beat all the boys. Like I don’t want to race the girls. I want to, I want to race the boys in the squad and at school. I was like, I’m going to beat them all. Like I don’t care. And like that competitive that my family and I, we compete doing the dishes. Like it was raising a very competitive household. So yeah. And then I’m now coaching all these girls. And I’m like, no, keep pushing through that. Like you can, you can become a really amazing swimmer or an amazing soccer player or netballer. I was like, if you just get over that kind of like, oh, I’m being judged kind of face and just remember that it doesn’t matter what people actually think is going on as long as in your head, you’re happy and you’re happy doing your sport. And I was like, there’s no reason for you to stop it yet. Yeah. Yeah. It’d be good if you could just show, show like kids in year nine, year 10, year 11 and a bit of 12 as well, but just show

them what they will feel like in after school in like the first year of university or the first year after school. It’s just like people don’t care. Like all that social, all those social dynamics of school are irrelevant. And the kids that were bullies, the ones that don’t go anywhere. Yeah. And you know, the ones that have success are probably the ones who are either getting, getting teased or, you know, smelling like chlorine. It’s that it’s, yeah, things just do not matter after school. So it’s good that especially if you’re coming from someone like yourself that’s a couple years out of school and you’re doing things like you’re doing, like that’s a, it’s a good message for them to receive from someone like you and not their mum and dad because they’re not going to get that message from mum and dad. Yeah. When, when mum and dad say to you, oh, don’t worry what kids think of you, you’re like, okay, you’ve forgotten completely what high school is like. Whereas I don’t know,

like if you find the right group of friends in school that don’t care that you, you know, you stink like chlorine or that you’re sweaty because you’ve just come from soccer training. Like no one cares about that. And even when I left high school and I went to uni, I found an amazing group of friends that have all experienced sport and all like you’re playing sport. So we get along so well. And I was like, okay, I’ve really found my people now. Like we’re all, we will understand the same thing together. I don’t have to be like, oh yeah, like I was up in the morning and then have to explain why I like to get up at 4 30am to train because no one at school really understood. Like, oh, why don’t you just sleep in if you’re tired? I’m like, no, I can’t just sleep in. I want to swim like this. Yeah. And it was just very interesting in school. I was like, no, I have to, I want to get up at 4 30. I want to swim.

Yeah. Yeah. And that’s one of the good things that my, my dad did because he was my coach for the majority of high school was that he would let the people let the kids know in the morning, like how many of your friends are getting up at this time and doing any form of exercise and are doing that. Well, yeah, seven, eight times a week, probably none of them. And so like, I think, and there’s, I’m reading a book now that’s escaped me. It’s about this. It’s a parenting book. It’s called the nothing. I’m well forgotten it, but it’s basically one of the, one of the first things it talks about is if you tell your kid that they’re, they’re special or they’re talented and that you praise them for that, then it’s going to lead to them not actually trying. But if you maybe make them feel special because of the effort and the work that they put in, that’s what’s going to make them want to do that more and then pursue that thing. And so I think it’s very much about,

it was very much about, yeah, you’re a special person because you’re choosing to get up and because you’re coming training and you’re putting in all this, this hard work, not because of, you’re just amazing because of who you are. So I know you’ve got to actually do something about it. And not just because of your achievements. Like that’s like, when I used to come home with, because I think I had that always in my head. Like, no, it’s not just about placing and it’s not about winning or coming third. It’s about like improving myself and how to come home and like people be like, oh, did you win on the weekend? I’m like, yeah, like, yeah, I came first, but like, I didn’t get a PB and I didn’t get this time. And they didn’t almost understand it. Like, yeah, but you won. I’m like, like, inside I didn’t win because I want to achieve more. Like I want to become more successful. And they, and it was very hard to kind of

yeah, relate to people at school. I was like, oh, don’t worry, like I’ll talk to my family when I get home about this. Like they all understand what I’m trying to talk about. Whereas, yeah, it always kind of, it did in year 11 and 12, I did start to feel quite lonely. I was like, nobody really understands actually what I’m trying to do, what I’m trying to achieve. Like they only just kind of look at me like, why, if you’re tired, sleep in or don’t worry about like, oh, you can come to the party, just train like another day. And I was like, no, I have to train. I have to wake up. It’s just, it’s part of my life now. There’s no way I’m stopping it yet. Yeah. And that, that’s sort of a feeling about those things is kind of something that I hope my kids have got when they’re going through school. I got, for me, I didn’t go to a heap of parties because of training and that sort of thing. I didn’t miss out. I still went to some parties and things like that. But

like, it’s just, yeah, I’m glad I didn’t like, I did not miss out on anything apart from a bit of trouble, I think. So yeah. And yeah, yeah, that’s, that’s exactly right. Like, yeah, you’re much better off having, you like, you’ve got to stay, stay busy and have something to do. So it’s, I think, yeah, that photo that your mum and dad posted at the end of the swim was just like, that was a great shot, you know, just of the family and like, probably pretty emotional six days that you went through together. But the fact you have to do it as a, as a family, I’m sure they’d be so excited about and, and just so, so proud of as well. And yeah, congratulations on, on the swim. And it was just, it was great to see you do it. And I was, you know, seeing it through the Facebook pictures, and it’s like, okay, it’s, it looks rough, but like, I’ve got no idea what you’re, what you’re going through. It’s like, I know what it’s like

when it’s rough, but it’s, it’s a different thing than actually there at one stage. And I was like, it feels choppier than it looks on that phone. I was like, are you sure you filmed that right? Like, did you do something with that video? I was like, it looks, it’s so much worse than that water than what it looks like on that phone. And I was even looking back at some of the footage. And I was like, I was like, wow, I feel like a silk for complaining. I was like, it doesn’t look that bad on the phone. And then I was like, no, it was bad. Okay, like you’re getting mouthfuls of the ocean water. Like, like it was bad. But um, yeah, it was, it was interesting because people still I don’t think fully realize that like, it was mother nature just did not want me to finish that 100 case. It was like, like, you think this is gonna like, because I was, I finished the first two days, I was like, this is going to be easy. Mother nature decided

to be like, aha, very funny. Have fun with this weather now. Let’s see how you go with this. Yeah, how do you feel looking back at it now though? Are you grateful that it was tough and you managed to push through it or looking back, would you go, actually it would have been still pretty nice if it had been five days of just sunshine and calm waters? I look back at it and I’m like, of course, like it’d be so much easy and it would have been so much greater to have it just so smooth. But I feel like the swim wouldn’t have been the swim that I did if it wasn’t choppy like that. The messy water and the conditions made kind of like made me so much stronger in the head than what it just swimming flat water would have because I had to be had to become very determined to my own head to be like, I am doing this. I don’t care what’s going to happen in the water. I have to get in this water and do this. And if it was calm each day, it would have been embraced to hop in.

And I feel like I would have started to complain about more things like it would have been like, oh, my arms are sore and my neck hurts. Whereas I almost didn’t want to complain because I was like, I was like, no, I have to be positive that the people I complained people going to be like, just hop out of the war. It’s shocking conditions anyway. So I really internalised it and I was like, no, like no complaining. These, these days are just going to have to get it done. Whereas yeah, if it was calm water, it just wouldn’t have been the same type of swim. It would have been almost too easy. I might actually start thinking about a new swim by now. But at the moment, I’m like, no more swimmers right now. I have to get over that one. It’s like a bad hangover. I just have to forget it or I don’t think about a new one. Yeah, that’s right. Yeah, soon enough you’ll get the the urge to have another drink or have another swim. So yeah, I feel like that.

Yeah, like maybe we’ll give like, like another four years or so, like I did with my last swim and then I’ll completely forget the pain that I went through. And I’ll be like, Hey, this is a new idea. We’re swimming this far this time. And I feel like my mum and dad will roll their eyes again and be like, Okay, let’s go. Here we go again. Yeah, I’ve got no doubt that you’ll forget how much pain. I think it’s a great idea again, whereas I hopped out of day two or day three or something. And I looked at my parents, I was like, next time I come up with an idea like this, just remind me that I’m in pain right now, remind me how much pain this was. I was like, and maybe tell me no, whereas I feel like I’ll talk them out of it again. I’ll be like, no, no, no, I’ll be fine this time. I swear I’ll train more and I’ll I’ll prepare better and I’ll eat more food and yeah, everything like that. That’s the first thing I said to my wife when

I finished Ironman was never let me do that again. Yeah. Yeah, all these endurance athletes, I see them all the time because we like the stories in their house that we grew up with was always about endurance athletes. The things we watch on the TV is like about Elliot Kipcher, you’re breaking two hours. Like that’s the type of stuff that is happening in our house. And we talk and we praise these endurance athletes so much that I think because we praise them so much in our house, I was like, I want to be like them. Like these are our idols. So this is my mum and dad. This is who they talk about. I was like, I want to be like those people. So I think that I was like, if they can do it, I can do it like whatever we’ll get in the water and do it. And yeah. Yeah, I think I’m going to have to forget about this before I think of doing anything else again. Yeah, it’s a huge effort. So thanks for jumping on the podcast and giving us a small insight into what you actually went through

on the day. And I think what I’ll do here as well as I’ll get some of those photos and those videos and and put them into this video as well. So people have a bit of an idea and then maybe we’ll just see if we can amplify the the waves and the chop by 20% to what it was actually like there. Because it’s like when I’m filming the surf with my phone or like with the GoPro, it’s like I swear it’s so much bigger when you actually actually in it. But yeah, no, I saw that video on day four and and thought, oh my god, I can’t believe it was the worst day. I think I got like literally body surfed into that beach and my cap and my goggles came flying. So I came out of the water with my cap and goggles off. Mum and dad are like, well, are we really ready for the camera? I was like, no, I just got smashed by a wave and my cap and goggles came flying off my head. And then I was just trying to get into the ocean.

I was like, wow, the ocean is trying to kill me today. Like just get out, get home. Yeah, I reckon so that would be a good video to put in there. So thanks for being on the podcast whole. And yeah, congratulations again. Thank you. Thanks for listening to the Effortless Swimming podcast. If you’d like us to help you become a faster, more efficient swimmer, go to www.effortlesswimming.com.