In day one of the catch-challenge where you spoke about entry and getting that sort of a snap in the water, the moment I felt that it was sort of groundbreaking, you know, everything sort of, you know, the rhythm improved, it was feeling good, I could feel myself going faster without putting in like a hard effort. Welcome to the Effortless Swimming Podcast to show that help swimmers and triathletes love the water, become a better swimmer and live a better life. Here’s your host, Brenton Ford. Welcome to the Effortless Swimming Podcast. My guest today is Chris Marsenstein, based in Singapore. I got in touch with Chris recently because he said he’d had some good results from a five-day challenge that we had recently run. And I just wanted to get you on the podcast just to talk about what sort of improvements you’ve seen and what you feel like you may have changed about your stroke to get those results. So Chris, welcome to the podcast.

Thanks for having me. So what’s your background swimming-wise and sports-wise, and what is it that you’re training for at the moment? Okay, in terms of swimming, I picked up swimming quite recently, actually. It was just like a couple of years back I learned to swim. The whole point behind swimming was to compete in triathlon. So obviously, I swim and run and do the whole

bit of training around triathlon that comes with the sport. In terms of swimming, I’ve been focusing a lot on it because my running is very limited because of injuries, and I’ve been using swimming to keep the cardiovascular base going while I recover from those injuries. In terms of where I am in my swimming, I swim with the master squad here in Singapore a few times a week, and we swim based on threshold times, the CSS time. So I always do a lot of my work around that CSS4, CSS5 sort of time because I know if I was competing in an event, I would probably swim at that pace. And you mean by CSS plus four to five seconds? Yeah, correct. So in terms of events, as soon as things are open, I’d like to compete in a 70.3 and maybe an ocean man. Of course, that’s in the future. And see where I was in terms of time. Around the beginning of April, we did a CSS test with our squad. I was around 154. So that meant I was swimming my CSS4, CSS5 in the region of 158, 159. So then I started bringing

in the five-day catch challenge into my workouts. So I used it as a warm-up. I started every workout that I did on my own with one of the day’s schedules. And I managed to bring my CSS4 down to my CSS. So it was very interesting the way it just came down. Because I mean, I can swim four seconds fast on CSS at any time. I mean, that pace is there. But what I’m really interested in is having that sort of comfortable pace that I can hold for like 2K, 1K, the longer sets.

It was remarkable the way it came down. Like a good sea, like from the first day onwards, all right, there’s something happening here that feels very good in the water. I’m swimming slightly quicker. And it’s not hurting me as much. The effort wasn’t increasing. That’s so good to hear. And talking before the call, you said you can’t pinpoint exactly maybe how your stroke has improved, but the times have improved. Did your stroke or does your swimming feel any different compared to before? Yeah, definitely. I mean, in day one of the catch challenge where you spoke about entry and getting that sort of a snap in the water, the moment I felt that it was sort of groundbreaking, you know, everything sort of, you know, the rhythm improved. It was feeling good. I could feel myself going faster without putting in like a hard effort. Like I wasn’t as out of breath as I would normally be. So I’d say that. And then I think on day five, you spoke about

rhythm, which was also a revelation because I never realized like I was pulling right from the point of the catch. I was going in and slapping down, down, down, down, and then, you know, bringing, pushing the water behind. So then I figured, okay, like let’s wait a bit, wait a bit, wait a bit. All right, now pull. And that really changed a lot in the stroke. It became fun. You know, I really enjoyed a bit of it. Oh, that’s, yeah. It’s good to hear. And like all these little things that we cover in those five days, these are things that I’ve picked up along the last 12, 13 years that I’ve been coaching. And I’ve, it took me sort of that long to learn all of them. And I’m glad that, you know, when you kind of get them condensed and keep it really simple, we really focus on one or two things each day. I’m glad to hear that it’s, that it has, it’s had that effect for you. And with that, that entry, I found, I sort of picked that up from

a coach Sheila Tiamina, who’s got a great books from Space Secrets to highly recommend it. She, so one of the things that I got from her was with the entry, you know, you think that you should spear the water and everything should follow your fingertips in, but it’s not the case. It’s actually that if you, as long as you get your fingers in first, you’ve got your elbow up, you can actually then just straighten your arm. You’ll actually hear good swimmers that elbow will kind of slap down. And so, you know, we go through some drills to help make sure that you do that, you’re not overreaching on entry. But when you get it right, you can really feel this nice drive with each entry and with each reach forwards. And it sounds as though that’s what maybe started to happen in your, in your stroke. Yeah, definitely. I mean, you get this real feeling of, like, you know, the picture of Superman, you get Superman flying over and he’s

got one hand back like that. You really feel that in the water, you know, going forward, right, the next, the hand comes in. And also the hand that’s, that’s recovering, doesn’t seem to take, take any energy anymore. You’re not hoisting this hand up. It’s just, it’s just swinging over in a very crisp way. And, you know, that, that really changed the swimming. You know, even my coach was saying, you know, there’s something really nice going, you’re, you’re entering in the right place, you know, entering near your front dress. And the, and you know, the whole recovery is right to swim in straight. Because, because previously, like, you know, I was swimming straight, but you know, there was a slight bit of a zigzag. But the moment the rhythm comes, you know, both sides become even. It’s usually like, you know, if you’re right handed, you slightly move to the right, even though you’re bilateral breathing. But once you get that rhythm, you know, it’s straight.

And there’s no, there’s no questions about it. The other thing you mentioned was the, the timing or the rhythm at the end, where it sounds like you just, you slow down that reach and that catch phase to help with the timing. And one thing I see a lot is that when people, if they’re quite new to swimming, they feel like they just need to get straight into that propulsive part of the stroke. So pull back straight away. But if you do it too soon, it throws out the rhythm of the timing of the catch and how it connects with the, with the hips. And we say it’s really, really common. And I think sometimes too, like, there’s so much nuance to all the little things in swimming that it’s easy to hear something like a phrase or a way that someone might explain a part of the stroke and just take it at face value. But there’s a lot of nuance and detail to it. One of those things that I’ve heard often said by more triathlon coaches than anything, but it’s just like, get the hand in,

get a big, you know, handful of water and pull it straight back as hard and as fast as you can. But it’s, that can work for some people. But in most cases, it’s like, no, you’ve got to actually spend that little bit of time to reach forwards and give yourself a bit more time to set up the catch. Because otherwise, just the time you get straight out and you’re going to be working a lot harder than what you otherwise would. And so I’m glad that you got that connection. Because when you do get it, as you probably know, it’s just like it feels good, everything comes together and you’ve really used your whole body to swim as opposed to just your arms or just your legs. Yeah, of course. And see the other thing that I really like was in the drills. I mean, I’ve done, you know, a version of these drills at some point, at some place, I’ve done all of them before. But, you know, you swim a lot, you stop thinking about, you know, what’s going on in

this drill. I can do in 616. All right, you know, we’re doing 616 to get the roll right, and so on. But then when you start thinking, okay, 616, you can also use it to practice your entry, for instance. And you get, you know, it brings brings a lot more awareness behind that drill. And you get more out of it. Because I really felt like my technique, I was doing technique stuff. But at the same time, I wasn’t engaged in it. I was like, you know, doing okay, we do this color and we do everything. All right, these are going to help. But I wasn’t thinking how it was good to, you know, come back to basics, you know, come back to thinking about what’s behind the drill. And I felt that really helped a lot.

You know, actually, yesterday when I was swimming, I was like thinking, okay, there are certain things that now feel sort of out. And I need to come back into these five days. So probably run these five days again, because I feel, you know, it’s not a matter of, you know, finishing bang one, two, three, four, five, and then all right, you know, that sorted out. It’s a matter of revisiting. And I feel if I do it, again, I’ll be able to knock out another couple of seconds. Because the moment I feel uncomfortable in the water, I know, okay, the stroke’s not working, you got to work on technique. It’s not a question of the time. I mean, time will always come. You swim hard, you can knock down three seconds. But that’s not the point behind the sort of a sustainable routine, so to say. Yeah, that’s great. Because it’s that awareness of it as well, that you don’t go through the five days, you’re one and done, and your catch is just magically transformed forever. You’ve got to either

revisit some of those drills or some of those points that you’re focusing on to reinforce those habits. And I’m just about to create another, just like a final module for that five day thing about how to take what you went through and then implement it so that that stuff becomes a lot more permanent. Because it often takes about six weeks to change a habit. And yeah, and it’s just, it is easy to go back to what you were doing when you’re not focused on it, or if you’re just thinking about other things as well. So the fact that you know that is

the first step is realizing that, yeah, it’s this slow trajectory that you’re going to keep improving, but sometimes you’ll go back down. But yes, if you keep following that mountain that you’re climbing, and yeah, you can really maintain that continuous improvement, but it’s not always just in the same trajectory. Of course not. No, no, it’s not about the time and like like improvement. It’s a question of how you define the improvement. I mean, I could define the improvement as okay, CSS reducing by a second every few weeks, every few months or so on. But but it boils down, you know, am I enjoying the swim? You know, is this something that I can go on doing on and on? Or is it like just hell? You know, if it’s hell, it’s difficult to come back and repeat that session. But if it feels good, you keep coming back for more. The training becomes a lot more pleasant in terms of adding it into an overall

triathlon routine because it’s not just the swimming. If you’re stressed in the swimming, you know, the bike is going to be very difficult. The run is going to be a lot of earth. So it’s good when swimming is the nicest on the body. You recover from it a lot better. But if you’re doing swim sets that are so hard that you need to spend a day to recover from the swim, everything else falls down. It’s really good to have that nice technique, to have that relaxation in the water. And yeah, yeah, it’s a very fulfilling feeling. Yeah, that’s fantastic. I did another podcast recently with somebody who went through the challenge and he was saying that aside from the improvement that he had in his times, the thing that he enjoyed the best about it was the feeling that he’s got when he’s in the water, when he’s swimming. Like he said, I get to the pool, doesn’t matter how I’m feeling. Whenever I get out, I feel so much better. And it’s like, yeah, that’s what it’s about.

You know, it’s just when you do have a good session and your stroke feels good and

you have this nice flow of the water over your body. And it’s such a great feeling. For me, there’s really something about being in the water, whether it’s in the pool, whether it’s in the ocean. There’s something about that water element that really is very relaxing and it feels great. So there’s very few swims that I’ve had, very few training sessions where I’ve got out and regretted it. So it’s, yeah, it’s such a great feeling and especially not necessarily coming from a swimming background by the sounds that like to be able to get to that point where you can really enjoy your swimming, the way that it sounds like you are. It’s a, to me, it’s quite a, it’s no small feat. It’s a big achievement to be able to get to that point because it means you’re putting the hours and the time and that consistency to learn something that is quite a complex movement and skill. And if you can, if you’re where you’re at, then

that’s a great place to be. Yeah, yeah. I mean, so the way I treat swimming is like, you know, when I’m tense, I get in the water. When I’m feeling stressed with work, all right, we’ll get in the water. It’s not always about, you know, knocking out that training session and you’re doing, okay, like three, three hundreds and all right, we got our days training. It’s more about, all right, let’s take a break from the day, you know, get into the water, get recharged and get out. I had the luxury of a pool very nearby where, you know, I can look at it outside of my window and it’s there. So, you know, I had that

luxury. So I swim whenever possible. It’s like, you know, even a few times a day, it’s not like I’m killing myself in the water. It’s recovery almost. Yeah, yeah, especially recovery for the legs after possibly a big weekend on the bike or running from what a lot of triathletes tend to do. And it’s like, you’re right. I mean, I had a big day on Sunday. I had three clinics. It was about 12 hours of coaching, three hours of travel time with driving and come Monday morning, I was, I’d probably got about four or five hours of sleep. And I was, I woke up at 430. I was thinking, do I get up and go to training? Because I know I’m going to train like crap. And it’s, and I’m so tired and exhausted. But I was like, okay, if as long as you go, you’re going to feel so much better afterwards. And I went and I’m glad I did. Despite my times being about five seconds slower per 100,

I knew that was going to happen. But the rest of the day went really well. And it set me up right. So that’s why as best I can, I’ll try and just stick to the, that routine that I’ve set, no matter what, what has happened the day before or the night before, because it’s always going to be the right thing to do because I always regret it when I don’t get up and swim. Yeah, of course. And I feel like the fitness gains from the swim, that translates so well onto the onto the run, especially like that ability of being able to push through on sort of a sort of in a relaxed state, like, you know, without your heart rate, you know, going, going to the roof. Once you get that ability in the water, I feel transferring that ability onto the run is so much easier, especially if you’re on the heavier side, like, like, like I am my heart rate, and it shoots up on the run. But, but I find that building that swim fitness and keeping that a sort of, you know, base fitness, it transfers so well

on the run, and I can hold my heart rate a lot better. And I’m sure it transfers under the bike as well. But you feel it a lot more on the run. Yeah, I completely agree. I mean, the one, the one year that I did triathlon, I was doing a lot of running as well. It’s like my, I felt like my swim fitness from the previous years had done, it carries over very well to that, yeah, to that running, because it just forces you to have to control your breathing, because it’s, you know, you’ve got to, you haven’t just, you can’t take as much air in as you like, you’ve got to be very measured and controlled with it. So I think that helps in a big way. And for you, going forwards in the next couple of weeks and couple of months, where do you, where do you feel like after going through the five day challenge, where do you feel like you’re, you can go in the next couple of months in terms of your, your speed and your

swing. Do you feel like you can get under that 150 and that there’s room to, to get under that, and that’s a possibility for you? For sure, for sure. I mean, if I can sort of really bedding these as good habits, a second, a second and a half every month, totally doable, because right now I know, I know my threshold pace and the threshold pace keeps coming down. But in terms of that comfortable pace, definitely I should be able to bring it down into one, into the 140s. Let’s keep that as a, as a wide goal. Yeah, I think it’s doable, definitely, bit by bit, you know, month by month, it’s possible. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And that’s the right, right frame of mind to approach into, like it’s seen it happen so many times that some, yeah, it’s, it’s absolutely possible in seeing those four or five seconds within the five days. Yeah, it’s not sustainable yet, but it’s, it’s going to be, and then it’s just going to keep coming down with the focus on the right things. And I’m looking

forward to seeing what happens in the next couple of months, because, yeah, hearing about where you’re at and what you’ve, what you’ve gone down to now, it’s, it is well on that trajectory. So good luck for the next couple of months. And I appreciate you sharing this on the podcast. Thanks. It was awesome. Like, there was one, I mean, to share one really nice thing that happened is, you know, there’s one squad that I swim, but I cannot keep up for my life with, with the swimmers in that squad. I mean, when they go, they lapped me. And somehow I managed to just get into that draft last week, during the last swim before lockdown, I think, okay, if I’m in that draft, I’m roughly about 5% behind them. And, you know, that was like, really fulfilling. I mean, that was very satisfying. Like, you know, achievement a lot. Yeah, that’s right. Got a taste of it now. Yeah, yeah, so nice.

Fantastic. It’s, I love it when I hear stories of people who, like, they, they, you know, move up a lane, or, you know, they, they get on, on the group that they just, they were just too far, just that little bit behind. It’s just like, that’s exciting. And the thing about that is like the swimmers in that lane, like they, it’s like you’re, you’re sneaking up on them. They don’t know, you know, you’re just, you’re working your way up there and they’re doing their own thing. And soon enough, you’ll, yeah, be right with them and then hopefully overtake them and they won’t know what hit them. So that’s, that’s the goal. Yeah, yeah, of course, of course. It doesn’t matter who the swimmer is, whoever is there. So yeah, servers in the next lane. Yeah, I know that feeling. Yeah, thank you, Chris. I appreciate it. And yes, all the best. Thanks man. It’s been great talking. Thanks. Thanks for all the help with the program.

Definitely do more of these. Yeah, awesome. Thank you.