So I talk about the sport as being the ultimate humility test. So the ultimate humility teacher. So you can be the best on the day and obviously lose the race or actually come fast by a long way, but despite being the best on the day. But so luck does play a part and even while I’m saying that, I’m saying luck doesn’t play a part because you’re always trying to teach yourself that you have control of your destiny. So for every race you go into, you go in there trying to do your best and worry about no one else, worry about your race plan. So specifically because on a six foot day on the Gold Coast, there are so many different ways to get out, come in that have different chances, different possibilities that vary 10%, 15%, but you need to take the majority chance to get the win. So you’re constantly evaluating odds and sometimes it doesn’t go your way and sometimes you have to be really OK with your decision that you made the right decisions.

Welcome to the Effortless Swimming Podcast to show that help swimmers and triathletes love the water, become a better swimmer and live a better life. Here’s your host, Brenton Ford. All right, welcome to the Effortless Swimming Podcast. My guest today is Surf Ironman competitor Matt Bevelecqua. Matt, welcome to the podcast. So you’re, I mean, you’ve got a huge background in Surf Ironman. You won the Neutrogen Series in 2018 and five times Molokai to a Wahoo paddleboard champion and with the fastest crossing too. Is that right? I think I’ve got the three fastest times for that event. So tonight, don’t mind being out there in Hawaii. So it’s a good race. I love to do. And tell me about when you first started racing in the surf. Like, what was your upbringing like? Were you always around the water? Obviously in Tassie, that’s not always the case. It’s the beaches and the layout of the city and stuff. It’s the beach.

The really nice beaches are pretty remote. So I was lucky enough to have, you know, really supportive parents that took me down to the beach. And, you know, even in the most horrible days down there, it gets pretty cold even in summer. Yeah, it’s down in the beach and just had a love for the sport and had a love for the community down there at Clifton Beach Surf Club, which is actually the most southern surf club in Australia. And yeah, I never, well, I did a lot of football and things like that. But I just really enjoyed being on the beach and challenging myself in conditions and throwing myself out there, you know, when the seas got big and stuff like that. So, yeah, love the sport from the get go. Do you think it made you a tougher competitor being brought up in those cold conditions? I mean, compared to the softies up in Queensland, right? And we’ve just got the warm water all the time, you know? And I’ve probably feel a little bit the same way down here in Victoria, right?

Where it’s just even now the water is still so cold, but you see the kids out there. I see my kids going into the water and, you know, they don’t want to go in, you know, back back home until they’re freezing cold. So did that sort of help you? You reckon become a tougher competitor and get used to tough conditions? I think it’s a bit of both, right? So you obviously what you don’t what you don’t know can’t hurt you. So if you don’t know any better is you just don’t think it’s that bad. So, yeah, you see the kids talking or it has either just and even now. I’m like, oh, my God, I’m not going in there now because I know a lot better now. But I think what got me to where I’m now is that that love for the sport. So even even though I loved going in the water down there and training and getting out there in the snow, I still enjoy the sport, which was, you know, I think it was clear for even my parents when decision time came,

things like that, they’re like, you enjoy it a lot. You know, you love doing it down here and here is not fun. So, you know, when the going gets tough up there, you’re going to keep going. So I think if you can, if you see kids doing it tough in difficult situations in whatever sport or whatever thing they’re doing and they still kind of have a real love for it, still doing it with a smile on their face, maybe they’re getting fifth or sixth or last, you know, maybe that’s the difficult situation. But if they’ve got that love for it, it’s a really good indicator that you could have some sustained success. So I think that’s that’s what I’ve noticed the most is that love for the sport is never left. And I’m glad I made the decision I did to stick with, you know, serve. And what is it that you love about the sport? What attracted you to it? Question two, like people say, oh, why did you why did you start? Nethers, why did you, you know, keep going?

And like, you know, my initial answer is, yeah, I just love the beach. I love testing myself in conditions. But I think it’s a bit of everything, you know, coming from Tasmania, we had to travel a lot to go to different competitions. And when I got the opportunity to go to the Gold Coast or to even to Perth or to Sydney for road trips and things like that, there is nothing better than doing a three day carnival on the beach with, you know, some of the best competitors in the world, in Australia and being a little niffer, you know, challenging yourself in different conditions, different beaches all around Australia. And that’s what the sports all about is, you know, travel and mixing yourself amongst the best at a range of locations. So I think that that was more a progressive part of the love for it because you obviously like going to the beach initially, but the reason why I stuck with the sport is those reasons.

And that’s what the Nutri-Gene Ironman series represents. You know, you go around with the best 20 guys or 20 girls to some of the best locations in Australia. And then each each location offers different challenges. So it’s a beautiful sport. And I think that’s yeah, that’s why the love where the love was generated later on. Yeah, I mean, I think about why I why I still continue to swim. I like yourself started pretty, pretty early started, I don’t know, four or five, just like parents sort of threw me in, but still continue to swim today. And I couldn’t see myself not continuing to swim. And for me, it’s like it’s a combination of like you want to be good at something. And when you’re good at something, you tend to continue to do it because you’ve put a lot of work into it. And if it’s something that you generally just love, it’s it helps. But then there’s also that element of wanting to get better, enjoying the

like I love to train. I love the feeling of being exhausted or testing yourself in training. And then look, I’m probably a better trainer than I am a competitor. But yeah, there’s like there’s a whole host of things. It’s like you just sort of get started in something and then it builds in it and it builds and it sort of sounds like that’s that’s what happened for for you. And like, why did your parents get you into surf lifesaving? Were they originally sort of beach people or they did it themselves?

Not really. Like, you know, I think my mum did it a little bit, but not really. I think they were really good parents that they just threw me into everything. But I remember getting a little bit of taste of everything like I was, you know, tennis, like karate music, you know, playing musical instruments, just everything. So I think surf was just encompassed in that, which was, you know, just in Tassie, which is still a bit strange. But we had a lot of kids in our sport in our surf club down there. So I think that’s what attracted them to send me down there. But yeah, just a bit of a taste for everything, which is so crucial for a young athlete. I think everyone, everyone has a sport they’re probably naturally accustomed to and naturally have a, you know, attraction to as well. So I’m glad I got taste for everything because I definitely found a niche sport that I have a niche love for. Yeah. And which out of the sort of sports that out of the events that you’re doing,

what do you what’s your preference? What do you enjoy the most? Yeah, it’s a good question. So our sport’s so diverse. You know, we have our Australian Ironman Championship, which is amongst the national titles, and it’s a very short race. We have the endurance event, which is the Cooling Out of Gold, and that’s in four weeks time. Then we have the Nutrients Ironman Series, which is six rounds, six different locations, you know, and then Molokai, things like the World Powderboard Championship Hawaii. So there’s just so many different events in our sport. And I think what still is just I just love the challenge so much is the Nutrients Ironman Series. The Cooling Out of Gold is probably a close second, but there’s no comparison to when we have an uninterrupted year going to six different locations for the best in the world,

racing individually and just challenging yourself at really different locations and travelling around. So yeah, Nutrients Ironman Series is the best. And do you train with the guys who you’re racing against there? I’d say most of them are up on the Gold Coast or up in Queensland, right?

Already would be in Queensland, few in sunny coast, probably majority in Gold Coast and then Sydney and stuff, feel the rest.

It’s, yeah, I suppose when we come together, it’s, yeah, a majority of the Gold Coast. So we spread across the surf clubs, obviously. So I only train with, well, I actually have three other Nutrients Ironman I train with. But mostly there’s probably only one or two at each surf club. So you don’t actually train with them too often. We come together in our swim clubs, they’re a bit more condensed. So you see other surf clubs in your mornings during swimming. But yeah, very spread and, you know, definitely spread between the surf clubs. And what’s your, what’s your approach of like, obviously, you’ve got to train hard. You’ve got to work your arse off and the, you know, your fitness and all of that plays a part. But obviously, there’s also the elements of the surf, right? You’ve, some people will catch a wave, some people won’t. And you have those sort of sometimes lucky, lucky breaks with it. So how does that sort of play into, to your approach?

Or if you perhaps have a good or a bad result, which might be the result of, you know, out in the out in the surf and maybe a bit of luck. What’s, how does that sort of play into your thinking of the end result at the end of the day?

I talk about the sport as being the ultimate humility test. So the ultimate humility teacher. So you can be the best on the day and obviously lose, lose the race or actually come last by a long way, but just by being the best on the day. But so luck does play a part. And even while I’m saying that, I’m saying luck doesn’t play a part. Luck doesn’t play a part because you’re always trying to teach yourself that you have control of your destiny. So for every race you go into, you go in there trying to do your best and worry about no one else worry about your race plan. So specifically because on a six foot day on the Gold Coast, there are so many different ways to get out, come in that have different chances, different possibilities that vary 10%, 15% that you need to take the majority chance to get the win. So you’re constantly evaluating odds and sometimes it doesn’t go your way. And sometimes you have to be really OK with your decision

that you made the right decision. So to worry about other people is an avenue to really just worry too much and not succeed. So you really need to focus on yourself and back your decisions and pretend that luck doesn’t play a part. Yeah, that’s right. And speaking about not not being worried about other people, we’re talking just before the podcast about where you train, which is at Miami pool. And it’s just like a treasure trove of elite sports people there. With Olympians, with with like national finalists. And then you’ve got a whole bunch of triathletes up that way. And like surf, Ironman competitors as well. So can you talk a little bit about the environment that you’re you’re training in with your with your swimming and who’s there and sort of how that looks. It’s a really cool part of my program. So I’m with Northbeats, but obviously in the mornings on the Gold Coast, we all kind of mingle surf clubs and go to different squads.

So there’s squads at Bond, Griffith with surf athletes there as well as Miami, which is probably the biggest surf athlete squad. So we run Dennis Kothra’s old program and we have triathletes coming in. We’ve got, you know, guys like Alex Graham, David Morgan that the pool’s from inside of our squad. And then yes, our squad has, you know, Matt Pool, Corey Taylor, Joe Collins, you know, we’ve had them all. So we’re kind of progressing on with the same sessions that Dennis Kothra used to set Grand Hockey at Tom Fraser Homes, Dan Smith, all those guys. So it’s a pretty heavy program and coached by Raylene. We, yeah, flog ourselves day and day out. So we’ve got a nine lane pool of probably eight good swimmers in each lane and that’s a massive torture test. But it’s the way we get our majority of our aerobic training. So unlike triathlon, the swimming in our Ironman races is probably the heaviest weight, like the most important kind of thing.

The most duration and the most time out there. So we have to be basically pool swimmers. You know, we we we rival times in training at the pool to the pool guys, but they’re much more finesse and can obviously race in the pool. We can’t go much faster than what we actually train at. So we convert that to surf racing and surf swimming on Wednesdays and Saturday mornings when we do our Ironman sessions. And yeah, so those those pool swims are chaotic and really challenging. A lot of the people that I coach at a triathlete to open water swimmers in the common question I get is how often should I be in the open water compared to the pool and most of the elite guys like yourself? It’s like the fitness is really done in the pool. And then the open water stuff, it’s more just about the skills and the tactics and learning, particularly at the beach, right? We’re like where you should where your line should be and all that sort of stuff.

So how often are you training for your swimming? And then I guess the other the other events as well.

I’m doing four pool swims in the morning. And then Wednesday and Saturday morning, I do my Ironman sessions, which are two obviously surf swims, but no specific actual surf swim sessions.

And my thinking, when you’re obviously majority of your listeners are open water swimmers, a lot of their open water swimming is very flat, you know, for triathlon and for open water swimming in, you know, the Kauana Lake, things like that. So it’s it’s it’s not quite it’s it’s almost easier because you’re more buoyant, you got your wetsuit on sometimes, salt water, things like that. It’s not too much of a transition. So to put it in perspective, I only do two two surf swims, none are specific, but I actually train to swim in, you know, six foot surf, you know, where going up and over swells and you’ve got to learn to swim. It’s not even swimming. It’s it’s very weird hacking water polo stroke where you’re basically looking for the next runner to dive through dive through. It’s like a continuous porpoise, basically in massive, massive seas. So and even then so we don’t train a lot specifically for it. But when you have those skills, we see a lot of guys come

from the pool and they can jump in the surf. They can easily transfer it even into big choppy conditions. So I guess what I’m trying to say is, yeah, the pool is very if you can get the skills in there by doing different drills, different swim sets with pool and band, things like that, you can really transfer very easily. So we find it’s no problem. Has there ever been any situations where you found yourself, I guess, not out of your depth, but where you’ve gone, all right, this is this is testing. Well, what’s that? So just just cut out. And in what way, like in the surf, if I’ve done in the surf, yeah, like out in the out in the ocean where you’ve been out in big conditions.

Yeah, absolutely. We I mean, we kind of train for that because that’s where our sports the most exciting and I like to I like that our sport is, you know, engaging for the audience. So I love to make sure my skills are absolutely on point when I train. So but yeah, so last in February this year, we had a showroom partners actually put on a massive event and I’m in classic shadow next on our main classic. It’s called and there’s 20 grand on the line for the first place. And it was it’s so insanely big at service paradise. I remember just being like, I don’t normally get scared. I’ve done a lot of stuff in big surf and it was it was almost 10 foot plus and we’re going out and surf surf skis and and swimming and ball palling and just yeah, my partner was actually going out as well. And I was thinking she cannot go out there like that is so big. And it was a crazy day. And I remember thinking I’m definitely at my max here.

So yeah, yeah, I think that was last time. But it happens fairly often. You know, you really do test yourself. But it’s majority pretty safe, you know, as long as you’re doing the right things, you can test yourself to the limit without being unsafe. But yeah, that was February this year and good scare. What’s it’s is it scary being out there swimming or when you’re like on the ski? What’s the what’s the toughest one in those conditions?

Look, you would think it would be on the ski or board, but swimming sometimes can be really you can feel really vulnerable swimming because you just don’t have the flotation. Obviously, ski, you know, you’ve got to fight six. They’re six meter skis, 18 kilos. You’ve got to paddle in your hand, but you’ve got speed at your side. Whereas swimming, you can really get caught if you get caught at the end of a ripple, it’s kind of like getting caught under the waterfall. You know, you’re actually you can’t get out of there. You get caught at the wrong spot. You’re you’ll be held under for a long time, just with minimal chance of air. So yeah, the swimming I reckon the swimming I actually feel the most vulnerable, to be honest. But that’s what we’re trained for. So yeah, that’s that’s right. But and especially without like the fins or anything like that, like sometimes I’ll I live near near bowels and sometimes

I’ll go and like body surf and put the fins on and stuff. And like there’s no sweep there. Well, unless it’s really big, but it’s like it’s pretty it’s generally pretty safe. But even so, like without the fins, it’s like you’re you’re very much a victim to to what’s happening there. And you’ve just got to go with with what’s happening in the ocean. And yeah, that’s I guess that’s why I can feel like probably the toughest event if it’s big and challenging.

Those fins are awesome. You know, when it gets really big to go out there with fins on, you feel completely different. Like in in every way, you’ve just got your feet back. But when there’s when it’s big, it’s just air. You can’t even swim. So you really have to be skillful and know where to go with the current and get out of a bad situation. So yeah, because you’ve got no power, you literally just swimming in air. So yeah, that’s that’d be a lot of fun. Actually, I’d like to body set bells and some fins on. Yeah, I’ve had a few comments out there, but it’s it’s I don’t care. It’s it’s good. It’s good fun. And what about in terms of training wise with your swim sessions? Are there a couple of favourite sessions that you’ll do? Because I’m sure that you’re probably repeating the same sets fairly regularly. What are some of your favourites? Well, like you like you said before, I’m addicted to that feeling of improvement and training.

So I’m there to I’m there to get better. I’m there to swim well. So the week on a Monday morning, we do three hundreds. And sometimes we get up to 10 threes

and we’ll do say to send one to three, you know, three times, maybe in the last one, you know, max. And if I can do that session well and really fast, that’s probably my favourite session when I get really fit. And I can smash that session. That’s that’s probably my favourite session. On Friday mornings, where we’re feeling pretty flat, we do a 40 50 set, which is 16 50s on 45.

Is it? Yeah. 16 50s 45 and then 12 on 12 on 50. And then it’s 55. And every every like quarter one is fast. So 16 every fourth is fast 12 every three is fast. Eight every two is fast. And then you do the last four or max. So yeah, it’s a really nice progressive set that you can kind of squeeze every everything you’ve got to give out without kind of just it’s too much overload and you can’t get through a Friday morning session. So yeah, there’s there’s two for you that are kind of like, yeah. That’s good. I’ve heard. So I heard clearly actually he posted about that session a couple of years ago, said it was one of Dennis’s like go to sessions. And so we’ve we’ve done that like for the last couple of years. We’ve got at the DC special and it’s yeah, it’s a it’s a good one. Although when I like we’ve given it when we’ve done camps in Thailand and and in Hawaii and stuff. And it’s like we I don’t give it to give this one is that cycle.

But at the same session, but it’s good. It’s like it’s 2K. It’s not too hard. But it’s sort of like this gradual build, isn’t it? Where at the end, you just like you completely wrecked. But, you know, it doesn’t feel too hard because you get to ease into it. And yeah, a lot of the time when you fit, you think you can’t you can’t you don’t have a lot to give. But if you can just ease into it with that 1650s, by the time you get to four, you’ve actually, you know, really warmed up nicely. It’s a great warm up and you can actually develop show a bit of speed at the end and get a good get some good times out of your session and walk away going. And this is the best thing an athlete can walk away from. He’s got I feel I felt horrible at the start of that. But I finished pretty good and I did some good times. If kids or athletes can walk away with that feeling, it’s pretty empowering because you go, oh, yeah, you know,

you’ve dead in the race, but no, no, no, I’ve got more to give. You’ve always got more to give. You know, I never I never really know if I’m dead. So yeah, good, good one. I think that’s also kind of similar to that 10, 300 session. Like I really like those sessions where you get that gradual build like one build onto three, for example, because you can start out pretty easy. A little bit quicker and then quicker again. And then you might even find that your times are improving throughout the set if you weren’t feeling great in the beginning. But I find that so much better and more rewarding as the athlete because you give yourself that sense of accomplishment. Whereas if you’re doing a set, there might be like 10, 300s all at like threshold and you just blow up number three and it’s all downhill from there. You know, it’s kind of a bit a bit down on yourself after a session. So I do like those ones where you can.

It’s like this crescendo towards the end.

A quick note from our sponsor. This episode of the podcast is sponsored by Form Swim Goggles. With these goggles, you don’t have to look at the pace clock anymore or be one of those swimmers in the pool always grabbing for their watch. With Form Smart Swim Goggles, you can see all of your key metrics while you’re swimming, distance, pace, stroke rate, they’ve got it all. And the swim data is displayed on the goggle lens and you can customize the display to see the metrics that you want to. And I was worried that it was going to be distracting, but you can literally see through the display, the metrics are always there, but you have to choose to focus on them. It’s really impressive and it makes hitting intervals or any kind of specific training much more manageable and achievable. And the goggles track it all. It’s automated. So from the time you start your session to the end of the swim, you don’t have to press any buttons in between.

It automatically tracks everything. Form also works with a bunch of the best pro athletes out there, including Lionel Sanders, Sarah Crowley, Hannah Wells and Olympic champion Usama Malouli to name a few.

These form goggles are for all types of swimming, too. One pair of goggles and you can use them in the pool, the open water. You can use them in swim spas and endless pools, too. So the same pair of goggles can be used in all of these different environments. The battery life is incredible, too. One hour charge is 16 hours of swimming time battery life. And you can have the display on either your right or your left eye. The goggles themselves come with anti fog solution that’s used in dive masks. So it’s great in terms of quality. And there’s a protective case with a nifty drainage solution. So after you swim, you can store them safely. And while the goggles connect to the Form Swim app on your smartphone, too, they all sync with the form app and they can review all of the details of your swim. And you can see what other swimmers are up to in the Form Swim community as well. I’m a big fan of these goggles.

I was really impressed when I used them and I use them for the vast majority of the sessions that I’m currently doing. To find out more about the Form Swim goggles, go to formswim.com. And you can use our coupon code effortless at checkout and save $15 off your order. Back to the podcast. So coming into coming into summer now, what’s what have you got on the calendar in terms of events and what you’re training for? Yes. So in four weeks, we’ve got the cooling out of gold. So that’s our in endurance race. It kind of kicks off the summer most most years last year. Unfortunately, we we didn’t get to race it. So and the previous year I won it. So I was probably one of the biggest achievements of my career winning that race. And the best ever to do it Allie Day wasn’t there. So he’ll be there in four weeks time. So I have to defend my title against him and really looking forward to a massive challenge, you know, and massive, massively motivated and really enjoying

training and a lot better than I was two years ago. So looking forward to that test kind of it’s going to hurt a lot that are ready for it. And then after that, our Nutri-Grain Ironman series kicks off. So it’s going to be a bit of a limited summer. I think we’ll probably just do two weekends and three rounds because we’ve just been a delayed start. Basically, we normally start racing about November for that series. So everything’s been pushed back. And then the Australian Ironman title in late March, which I really need to try and win. So I haven’t ever won one of those. Never won one of those. And that kind of ends our summer. We’ve also got the Shoreham Partners summer surf like series throughout that summer as well. So between the Gold, the Nutri-Grain series, the Shoreham Partners events and the Australian titles. So it’s a lot coming up over the next four months. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it sounds like you’re going to be racing

close to every weekend by the sounds of it, right? It’s like, yeah, yeah, almost, yeah. And I mean, compared to winter, I’m guessing there’s like essentially there’s no competitions that you’re doing unless you’re traveling over to Hawaii or something which obviously hasn’t happened. So how do you how do you go with it? It’s like being a footy player, I guess, where you train, train, train. And then it’s just compete back to back. Yeah, it is. It is this summer. Last summer was not quite the same. We did the Nutri-Grain Ironman series over two weekends. And then Aussies, you know, so it was a really quiet summer. But yeah, when things are going, it’s on. So, yeah, you have a big off-season period and then your race, race, race. But normally, yeah, once once Aussies is done, kind of March, April, I can have maybe four weeks off. And then I’m 10 weeks out from July, July 30th, which is normally the board Molokai. So, you know, that’s 52 Ks.

It’s a five hour board paddle race. So I really need to do some long distance stuff for that. And so it’s it’s almost a continuous year. But obviously had kind of a nice break now. So I did five board paddle world championships in a row. And then so I didn’t really have a break for five years. And then I was actually going to have a break last year anyway. And then it was cancelled. So, yeah, it was one of those things. And I had a two year break now from the race. So I came to get back there and start getting back to normal and putting some back to back years together. Yeah, that’d be that’d be good. And what do you think sort of sets you apart with the the board paddle, like in that race, having perhaps the top three times? So what do you think you’ve you’ve got over everyone else? It’s sort of giving you that advantage. Yeah, great question. And I don’t really have an answer for you. Board paddling for me has just come.

I’ve always been a pretty natural board paddler on the on the big clubby boards when I was a kid lying down on the nymph boards, not so much like I didn’t even win races in Tasmania or anything until I was, you know, much, much older, like 16, 17, used to get flogged in juniors. And I’m and yeah. So I’ve got incredibly flexible hand strings, like even cold. I can go almost put my wrist to the floor with straight legs. So little things like that are obviously like maybe just naturally talented in genetics wise, but training for that race. You know, I just enjoy being like I told you, I enjoy being out in the ocean. There is nothing more fun than I enjoy going downwind in massive, like 10 foot swells and a huge downwind on those boards. It’s it’s like it’s like continuously surfing for like as long as you want to go for. So yeah, I love I love doing it. So when I go out, when I train the preparation for that race,

I’m probably doing more hours than anyone else. And that helps obviously for competing. And yeah, when we get over there, it’s just awesome. You know, you’re out in the middle of the ocean. You can’t even see land or anything or anyone like and you just paddle downwind and practice catching these swells for like five hours. And that’s a race, you know, it’s like nothing else in the world. And it can get pretty big. You know, open ocean seas in off Hawaii in those winds, you know, the faces of the waves are pretty massive. And you can you can get down and you can get some serious speed. So yeah, just a love for it, mate. That’s that’s another underlong tone here. Yeah, that’s awesome. And are you are you practicing that on the Goldie? Like are you driving up north and then going down on the right days? Or are you just going out from the surf club? Yeah, absolutely. That’s it. So when it’s flat, obviously I just go off the surf club.

There’s no point driving anywhere. But every chance I get that there’s wind, I’ll go down the coast. There’s a good paddle I like from because Brunswick and the Byron stretch before tweed, cool and gutter. So just just before the New South Wales border, it’s a lot more open to the southerly. So drive down to say Brunswick or Byron and then paddle back from Byron all the way to basically tweed or just to Kingscliff. And yeah, right. So it’s it’s shark highway out there because there’s no there’s no points that shelter you. So in the Gold Coast here, it’s a big bay where sheltered by tweed. So the sharks kind of, you know, they stay out to sea and run up and down the coast and it’s wearing kind of a protected bay. But that’s why Byron and stuff get them because they’re out there. So protect non-protector from the wind and I’m protection for everything else. And great, great paddlebacks, you know, we get dropped and fly back.

And it’s a bit very similar to Hawaii. But on the Gold Coast here, it’s it’s quite flat during during winter. So great open water swimming weather and things like that. But yeah, you’ve got to get out there when the wind’s out there. Mm, I saw a video on YouTube of two guys that they foiled from, is it, I don’t know, not main beach, but like sort of the top just before Strati like fall from there all the way down to like surf as I think it was. I was like, like, it’s not really something you can do that often around here. But yeah, with the wind and that kind of thing, it’s good conditions for it. Yeah, like the northerly is good. So it’s a north wind that’s going the other way. So you could start at Seaway and paddle all the way over to Snapper if you wanted to. That’s that’s about maybe twenty seven K or so. And at times you’d be a long way out to see because like I told you the Gold Coast is a bay, but that would be like, you know,

guys like Kyle and you are saying from Hawaii could do that. It’s a great opportunity here on the Gold Coast is pretty cool, pretty cool spot. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And what about what about with the cool and get a gold? So that’s a huge event. And it’s like it’s really well, well known, really well publicised, particularly up on the Gold Coast, but I think even across Australia, like everyone’s heard of the cool and get a gold. How is that for you coming in winning that event? Yeah, yeah, it’s just crazy. Growing up in Tasmania, I remember watching the movie just with my little brother and my dad and the couch back home. And I remember I was so pumped to do it. The minute I was old enough to do the under nineteen event I was in I was like 16 and went over and did it. And I got six, which is pretty cool. And I just I was so stoked with that result. I was like, you know, blew my parents away. They were like, whoa, you know, only five of these mainlanders beat you

because I could compete in it a bit better than the short stuff because it was just a long time out there on the ski, a long time out there on the board and I can train for that in Tassie on the Gold Coast here. If you throw a 14 year old Tasmanian against Queenslander in four foot surf, you know, they’re like, what is what is this beach? You know, what is this place? Even like Torquay, you know, it’s a protected like little beach compared to the open Gold Coast. Like, yeah, that’s why Victorians again struggle as well. They don’t have like that unless you go on a port seal or something. You don’t have the comparable beaches. So I just had a love for it and I could easily do it when I was 19. And so then it was always a goal that I was like, I could probably achieve this if I before the things align and I can I can put the training together for it. So that’s what happened on that day. And just a day I’ll never forget was it was an insane race against one

of my best mates until the last kilometre and we had to have a sprint off. So. Oh, really? Yeah, it was just, yeah, it was a pretty crazy story. And I’m pretty keen to see what stories will come out of the next one because it’s going to be, yeah, a lot of guys would come to party and it’s going to be a tough, tough, another tough event. It makes me think of like some of the triathlon races I’ve seen where even like a half Ironman or Ironman events, which can spread across seven, eight or eight hours for for some of the pro guys. And if it comes down to a sprint, you just think, oh, my God, what are these guys got left in the tank after such a big day out? And I mean, the same thing with with Cooley was it’s just a it’s a long day out. Is it how many hours does it typically take for the for the race? So it’s about four hours is, you know, what the winters have come across that and yeah, so they we’d come through then and then, yeah,

some some guys would be out there for like eight hours or something sometimes. But yeah, so it’s it’s crazy. Like I always watch races like that and you see them sprint finish and you’re like, or, you know, any event you just like, how do they have anything left? And you just fueled on adrenaline. I remember trying to I remember just like literally gritting my teeth. You know, I was just so like desperate for anything I’d got and just hurting so much that I was just gritting my teeth so bad and like I had like a buck phone and stuff around my mouth and I was finishing the race. But just no idea, you know, just in such limits of pain. And I was thinking about it the other day because every every day you train, you’re trying to think of those moments and remember how much it’s going to hurt. So draw on draw on this opportunity at training to make that moment hurt a little less. And I was just, you know, we’ve been doing so many

times, I’ve been kind of delirious in the head a little bit, but I was thinking you don’t actually you train for those moments to hurt a little bit less, but they never do. You just keep getting faster. So I was because I’ve been, you know, improving a lot in the last few weeks and like kind of hurting the same and just thinking this is just this is a, you know, infinite challenge. You just you’re never going to hurt any any less. You just get faster. So I thought that was a funny thought I had the other day. But yeah, looking forward to it anyway. I reckon, yeah, it’s is that something that you’re thinking about in training a lot is that you’re visualising yourself racing, maybe like the last part of the race where you might be head to head with someone or, you know, seeing yourself on the start line is that something that you’ve done before or what you continue to do? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think visualisation and mental imagery for racing and training is just so

crucial. It’s really, really important. Even to the point where if you watch a lot of race footage, it’s kind of like the same because your subconscious takes on a lot of and that’s why I watch your videos is because your subconscious takes on a lot of the technique that you’re watching. You might not even notice it. You know, you might be talking through specific skill skills that you focus on, but just watching it, your body takes on so much of that knowledge. And yeah, so when I’m training, obviously picturing exact moments. If I do good things at training. So always I’m learning, you know, especially in the surf, just the oceans are infinite teacher. So I’ll remember those moments and drum it into my mind. And I’ll think, think through what I did, think through what I did so that you’d never forget it. You don’t just experience it in the moment and then forget it. You go, that felt good. I’ll, you know, I’ll remember that just think through it again.

And it’s almost to the point where those reflections after training is so crucial so that when it comes to race day and you’re sitting on the couch the morning of your race, you can just sit there and close your eyes and just picture all the, all those decisions that you’ve committed to. And all those things you want to do, you can really think to see them clearly and then enact them a lot easier when you race. And after training, you said you reflect, you reflect on the session a lot of times, are you doing that just while you’re having a coffee or having breakfast or you’re writing this stuff down? What’s your approach to it? Yeah, I do have a journal like all that. I’m very imperfect. I think if I was my perfect self, I would definitely be writing down every thought in a good journal, having a journal every year. But I’ve got kind of a really big book that for big races I make notes about and I definitely don’t do it after every training, which I should.

But yeah, after big moments and race preparation. So for the for the gold coming up, I wrote down notes for my preparation for 2019 because obviously it worked out right. So just the when what they had a massage nutrition, nutrition moments that I stuffed up nutrition that went well, things like that. But yeah, I think for listeners, you know, if you can write down notes, you have a diary for each year and you can write down, you know, some things that went well at each session or things you’ve been focusing on. It’s just so good, not even for revision, not even for revision at the ends of the year, it’s just for that, you know, reiteration in your head and that reflection, that reflective help. So yeah, it consolidates your thoughts, doesn’t it? I think of like, I don’t really sort of write about that stuff anymore. But when I was a teenager, you would keep a log book and write down like the main set and how we felt and that kind of thing.

And I probably use it more these days is more like when we were running camps for some like 2019, 2020, I’d at the end of each camp, I’d write down what what went well, what we can improve and just like, yeah, and just get it out on paper and then I can either look back at it or I just I remember it a lot better once I’ve written it down. And it’s kind of like when you for me, it’s been coaching. It’s like when I coach swimmers on their their stroke, I learn that a lot better when you’re teaching someone else as opposed to me just doing it. And yeah, it’s just that that next level of, I guess, taking things on board or learning them. Absolutely. And I was kind of I was intrigued into how how your coaching had kind of changed. So I scrolled to the bottom of your Instagram and watched like different a few other videos and just like even then I could see how much it’s progressed. Like you can you can just learn so much from analyzing where you were to where

you’re at and it’s just so motivational. But yeah, I could see that like you’ve done you’ve done well to improve how you coach as well. So like, yeah, it’s so yeah, it’s so so important to that reflection. And it’s it’s it’s a bit fickle and annoying. Sometimes you’re obviously so dead and you’re worrying about nutrition, but the key it’s a key part because that visualization, you want when you come up to a race, you want something easy that you can just lean on for just mental fortitude, a bit of positivity. You know, you’re going up to a big test, but that visualization is so easy. If you just got these notes, right, you know, normally for me, it’s a lot of swimming based stuff because it’s it’s my it’s probably my weakest leg, it’s just improved so much over the last few years. But I’m always always trying to work to improve it because yeah, it’s like I said, it’s the most important leg. So yeah, I just want to tick off those dot points.

You know, focus on that catch, you know, head up through the break, you know, lengthen out once you’re out of the back, like just little things. It’s not even too complex, but yeah. Yeah, it’s it’s interesting hearing you say like you watch the video of someone swimming and then you can almost internalize that and swim like them. And I like I love doing that. Like obviously, we’ve got the footage of Dan Smith, which you’ve seen. And he’s just he’s a he’s a bit of he’s quite unique with his stroke. He’s just so perfect and long. And when I’m doing some stroke count stuff in training, that’s really easy. I’ll try and picture myself like swimming like him. And then I’m picking up the pace a bit like my stroke is I’m not going to sustain that kind of style. So I’ll sort of switch to someone else like probably a bit more like Katie Lubecky with that more loping sort of style. But it’s exactly right. You can just picture picture who you’re trying to swim like.

And then you can really start to incorporate that into your into your own stroke. Yeah, because each person is different, each each like your different as well. So you can kind of, yeah, change it up for when whatever speeds you’re at. And and yeah, like I remember Dan Smith. I mean, so with Dan Smith, Dennis Cottrell always used to have a chat with me and another surf map pool after each session. And, you know, we’d be talking about Haki going into the his last Olympic trial and things like that. And he said, oh, if I could combine Dan Smith stroke with Haki’s work ethic, Haki just was never outworked. He goes, I’d have the perfect summa. You know, he just he loved he just loved Dan’s stroke. He just on it. He always used to use him as an example. So yeah, he’s he’s pretty amazing that that hundred. And that the Iron Man swim as well. You know, that flat water swim. Yeah, that was just incredible to watch.

I was kind of mesmerized by that. And with your own swimming over the last few few years, what what sort of what are some of those things that you focused on and how had you approached it over the last like five years or so? Yeah, it’s it’s been it’s been an incredible ride. So when I left Tassie at 18, 19, you know, my my surfs, my swimming was, you know, pretty terrible. I just was never naturally talented at it. Even when I left home at 19, I never it was even wasn’t even in the Iron Man series. It took me like two or three years before I could even break in. Let alone start to be competitive. So yeah, it’s come a long, long way. And I think I don’t I’m not exactly textbook. I’m not a completely dedicated athlete. Like I said, doing reflections every session or focusing on a variety of things. I’m a bit of a hacker and I just work really hard. But at the very minimum, I’m always just thinking, especially on easy swimming, just little things, you know, like keep hard and even

I don’t even want to say what I’m supposed to. But, you know, just high high elbows, maybe straighten your arms. So I change a lot during my swimming. Like you said, when you’re trying to fix that on dance, miss stroke for easy swimming and then maybe Katie that’s Ledekis for hard swimming. Just always thinking and always never switching off and just going through the motions when I’m doing drills. You know, when I’m doing one arm, you know, one arm swim, one arm drills, my hands by my side and I can I can breathe what we call uncle. So on the other side, not under your stroke arm. And it’s a very balanced rotation now that I can do for that drill. Things like catch up and six kick holds, you know, with your elbow high and then reaching out, things like those drills I used to do and just go through the motions early, but I focused on them so hard that now they’re a real strength. I can do them really efficiently and strong.

And I think that they’ve helped my swimming come a long way. And I can see a lot of hacking surf swimmers, young kids coming through. And I say, you know, work on that one drill, you know, put your hand by your side and rotate and breathe the other side. And they go, I can’t do that. It’s really hard. And yeah, it’s hard. But that’s why because you need to do it to improve your swimming. So those drills I focused on, I never switch off when I’m doing easy swimming, hack a lot when I’m doing the hard swimming. But yeah, I think they’re just always open to learning as well. You’re there to you’re there to improve your swimming. And swimming is a finess thing. It’s the same as very similar to kayaking and surf ski paddling. If you if your techniques off, it’s just not going to happen. You can be the hardest guy in the room. It’s just not going to get you there. So really, really try and focus on improving whenever I can do on the ease

and stuff in those drills. Yeah, that’s it’s so good to hear. Because I mean, I think back to when I was young, I would do drills, but it didn’t really know what the point behind them was. And it’s easy just to roll through it. You know, you can do a few hundred meters of drills and you’ve done it. But if you haven’t focused on it or you haven’t used it to help improve your stroke, well, it’s no wonder like you just you’re just going through the motions. So I think what I’ve tried to do with my coaching is to explain the drills and the purpose behind them and how that relates to your stroke. Because I find there’s a disconnect there. And look, I get it. If you’re a squad coach and you’ve got if you’ve got nine lanes of swimmers across the pool, right, you’re not going to be able to go into too much detail with with things. And we run small group clinics of like six people. And so we have lots of time to explain the stuff.

And that’s what I try and do with the videos. So it’s, yeah, bridging that gap. And then when people do a drill and they see a result and improve their stroke, it’s like, OK, there is a purpose to drills. But yeah, you don’t need to do a whole session of them because I know what it’s like, you know, you just want to I just want to get fit. I just love that feeling there of a hard session. But also your technique is so important. You’ve got to do what you’ve got to do to to improve it. Yeah. Dennis used to Dennis used to pull us aside every now and then. You know, it was every three sessions. I don’t even think he’d say a cue, but he would stop he would stop everyone and he’d walk up and down the pool doing, you know, this catch and then he’d walk himself along a few steps. It’s the catch, you know, and he’d be so that was what he’s focused on. And so did you know, just just twiggy every few sessions to go, yeah, OK,

I need to focus on this drill. You know, it’s not there for just shitting giggles at some is a purpose to it. And it really focuses on a part of the stroke that you can change. When he’s swimming, it’s like even doing easy swimming, you’re not actually you can’t specifically look at, you know, once one part of your stroke. It’s kind of hard. You’ve got everything moving together, whereas they utilize it and yeah, if you can do like to catch up and just think about how far how many how little strokes you can do. And I wish I took more notes because I reckon I’ve dropped, you know, 10, 10 strokes of 50 off my minimum stroke in even just the last five years. Yeah. Yeah. It still doesn’t look pretty, but I’m much more efficient than I was for years to go. I’m much more balanced because coming out of Tassie, I was just a huge big hook and left and then a flat right arm and just some other evened it a lot out.

It’s a great feeling. I love my swimming now because I’m so much more efficient back when I first left Tassie was the chore, you know, getting up in the morning is I didn’t want to go swimming and and now I got all my gear in my bag or snorkel. I just embrace the entire process and I did a post about it the other day. My weakness is definitely almost becoming a strength, you know, compared to the rest of the Ironman, my swimming is probably one of my best because a lot of the other guys are good at board and ski, but it’s becoming a strength. So if you really work on it and you go to go through those little skills, you can make it make it more of a love for you. And then you can really improve. Yeah. Yeah. Totally agree. If when you see those those little improvements, it’s it gives you that confidence and it gives you that love for for especially with with swimming, which can be such a frustration for people.

Yeah, it’s yeah, you need the finesse, you need that skill. And what in terms of strike count, like what are you when you’re doing just a minimum strike count 50, what are you doing? Yeah, I’ve been getting down to 24, 25 for when I’m really nice and warmed up. Yeah, right. We don’t actually focus on it too much. So that’s just mid session, you know, me having a good time. But yeah, when I’m feeling good and my stream line is not great either. I’m not going to the 15 or anything. That’s just, you know, past flags or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, 24, 25. And yeah, a lot, lot better than previously. Our system is we can do some good times, but we’re hackers, you know, it’s inefficient, but when it’s in the surf, we can we kind of slow it down a bit and it kind of works a bit better. But it’s good to know that, you know, I’m getting better stroke in the pool. Yeah, that’s I mean, that’s 24, 25 is really low.

That’s that’s that’s awesome. And I mean, when you’re swimming in the surf to an open water, you’re not going to look pretty. You just can’t physically do it when there’s surf like you’re swimming in. So but it is good to have that finesse in the pool. And then if you if it’s flat and it’s better conditions, you can use it otherwise you I think you take that better feel for the water into the ocean when you’ve got a hack a bit. You still have that better feel for the water that you develop in your pool sessions. Yeah, yeah, like, you know, barely arm strength, strong, Nick Sloman and we’ve got Ruben Reese at Miami. Those guys are really efficient in the pool. They just look incredible, especially Nick at the moment in the pool. Just so good. And even when it’s dropping the surf, he just he makes it look smooth. You know, it’s almost like the more power he has, the more hip control and power there in the kick.

He can just make a choppy situation look pretty small, but it looks pretty flat. So yeah, definitely every single like I told, like I was saying before, that it’s definitely transferable easily and everything I do in the pool. I know it’s going to be really efficient, really helpful in the surf. Yeah. Well, I appreciate you being on the podcast. And I know you want to talk too much about technique. But I think it’s yeah, we kind of got people are going to be laughing at me. But anyway, I listen to my coaches that yeah. And I’ve listened to you. So yeah, thanks for that. So awesome, awesome platform you have to help such such a massive variety of summits. So yeah, cheers for your help as well. I appreciate it. And I mean, like I saw you shared one of our videos on on Instagram. I think it was and I was like, that’s awesome because I’ve watched you in the surf Iron Man scene for a number of years because I’ve enjoyed watching that stuff.

And I had a whole season of surf Iron Man probably 10 years ago. But yeah, so I appreciate that. But I wish you all the best coming up for this season, particularly for the Cool and Gatta Gold. And thanks for sharing all this on the podcast. It’s it’s been great. And yeah, I love the the fire that you’ve got. It’s it’s great to see that. And yeah, it just transfers into someone who’s a very good competitor. So yeah, I wish you all the best for the season. Cheers. Thanks so much. Thanks for having me on. Thanks for listening to the Effortless Swimming podcast. If you’d like us to help you become a faster, more efficient swimmer, go to www.effortlesswimming.com.