Welcome to the Effortless Swimming Podcast to show that help swimmers and triathletes love the water, become a better swimmer and live a better life. Here’s your host, Brenton Ford. Welcome to the Effortless Swimming Podcast. My guest today is a good friend of mine, Lysandra DiCavallo. We’re talking today about preparing for a 20 kilometer swim and particularly or specifically the Rotnest Island Swim which is held over in Perth once a year in February and Lysandra has done it three times solo and this podcast is all about getting some advice on how to keep warm during the swim, fueling, how much you should be training, a few things to keep in the back of your mind as you lead up to such a massive swim. So Lysandra, thank you for joining me on the podcast and welcome. Thank you. Thanks for having me, Brenti. So today I just want to sort of dive deep on how you’ve prepared for the Rotnest Island Swim in the last couple of years and some things that you’ve learned along

the way because I know a lot of athletes that I coach in the swimming membership are preparing for the Rotnest Swim in Feb and also some other longer ones. So to kind of kick it off, talk about your experience with Rotnest and how many times you’ve done it and what drew you to doing that swim. Yeah. Hi everyone. I’ve done the solo swim three times and I’ve done it the first time I ever did it in 2013. I did it as a duo and actually one of my teammates asked me if I wanted to do the swim with him as a duo and I said yes and I didn’t really know what I was getting myself into. When I found out he wanted to do half and me to do the other half. So I basically did 10 Ks and I did the last 10 Ks and from then I got hooked and I decided to try and do the whole thing by myself the following year. So 2014 I trained and I attended and I was successful and I did it for the first time. It was all very different the first, the second and the third time because the first

time I actually didn’t know whether or not I could swim that distance. You know I did the training but I had never done anything like that before so obviously there are all sorts of doubts and I just wanted to really have a go. So when I went there the second time I knew I could do it and my training was a little bit more different and I had a goal time and I wanted to swim under a certain time and same thing for the third time but you cannot plan these things too much because it’s the ocean and all the times I swam the conditions were different, the currents and the winds it was never the same. I could go on and on anyhow. Yeah I mean you can compare your times from pool swims to 50, 100, 200 and so on but anything that’s open water there’s always going to be that variance of current, swell tide, conditions, everything so it’s nice to have those goal times in mind as something to work towards but at the end of the day it comes down to conditions

and I guess the thing that you can more times than not sort of base how you went on is your placing in the event but it also depends on sort of where you are like you’ve been right up there and so if you get three or four really good swimmers who enter in one year that automatically that might push you down a couple of places so it obviously depends where you are but there’s a general sense you can compare yourself to how you are in the field and what’s your best placing so far for Ronas? So last year I did the champions of the channel which is the elite wave so you have to swim 10 k’s under two hours and 40 minutes to qualify for that so last year I did this wave the champions on the channel and I came seventh but the previous year it wasn’t an elite wave I came second in my age group so I don’t know I think I’d rather be seventh with all the girls you know all ages in the elite wave than the second I had the previous year. Yeah yeah I mean

that’s and that’s an awesome result as well so I’m sort of looking at that with the lawn pit of pubs coming up in January this year turning 30 just thinking whether do I do I go on the 30 to 39 age group and you know try and get on the podium or do I stick with a super fish wave and maybe if I have a great swim and do I try and get on the podium there it’s just I’m not sure I think I’d rather just have a hit out with the with the super fish guys and that’s yeah I like being in that big group of people. Exactly exactly it depends on what you want you know because I feel that I always I push myself harder you know when I’m in that group as well. Yeah I think yeah it’s good to really it’s good to train with people who are faster than you and it’s good to compete with people who are better than you because it lifts your standards and it makes you have to rise above where you may think your ceiling or your limit might be so I think it’s a really good

thing to get out of your comfort zone and get beaten and have to have to rise there so it’s yeah yeah that’s and that’s what makes it exciting so in your sort of lead up to Rotnest in the last year or or two how many swims were you doing per week what was the average distance how did you progress with your longer swims each week and how steadily did you build that up can you talk a bit about your training towards the yeah absolutely absolutely so I start increasing the volume in about October yeah I normally swim about 12 to 16 K’s a week and then in October you know slowly I will do 18 K’s or I’ll do some doubles I’ll do maybe one or two sessions do swim twice so usually either on a Monday or Thursday I’ll swim whenever 6 7 a.m. and I’ll back it up in the afternoon and I’ll try to swim four to five times a week for four kilometers and then in November I try to do four doubles per month in the entire month

so either the Monday or the Thursday I do either two sessions of four K’s or two sessions of five kilometers and then the rest of the week I’ll swim four or five kilometers and then in December I start because the water well here in case in Victoria in Melbourne the Bay starts to warm up and I actually like doing my ocean swims without the wet suit because in Rotnest you cannot wear a wet suit so you need to be comfortable and the water last two years was about 20 21 degrees which is quite nice but anyhow so in in December I start doing my long ocean swims so maybe on a Sunday or Saturday I’ll start with a six kilometer swim maybe eight kilometers depending on the conditions and January I’ll build up then I’ll try to do a 10 kilometers and maybe two sessions like two Sundays in a row do my 10 K’s and finally in Fab I’ll try to do 12 to 15 K’s every Sunday well two weeks prior to the race not I won’t do those 15 K’s then I’ll

obviously decrease more or less do a taper this is for solo swimming yeah so I’ll swim up to 25 K’s and then two weeks prior to Rotnest I will sort of do 2018 and I think the week of the race I’ll do 12 to 15 K’s nice and with those those longer swims you’re starting to get used to your feeding and like how often you feed and the food that you’re taking in yeah this is that so that’s important to do these long swims because that’s when you’re gonna test your feeding that’s when you’re gonna test you know your mental toughness as well you know because when you start training from one hour in the water but two to three hours you got to prepare yourself not only physically but mentally it takes time and either it is cold or it is rough you never know the conditions and and that’s when you when you try are you gonna eat you know stop every 30 minutes every 40 or every 45 minutes in this case I stopped every 45 minutes but

I didn’t find out that was good for me until I started training and started stopping during those long swims so even in the race you were feeding every 45 minutes that’s right yeah during the race I will stop every 45 minutes even if I’m not too thirsty but that’s never the case you know I’m actually my body knows more or less now when it’s time for a break and every 45 minutes there you’re having a drink and something to eat yes not really I don’t normally eat myself I have a drink and I have a sports gel and I take turns I have one with caffeine one without caffeine one with caffeine one without caffeine and normally at the 10 kilometer mark which is halfway for me I give myself a treat which is you know I get to eat a banana which for me is I thought you’re gonna say chocolate or something there’s actually a treat but okay a banana yep yeah because it’s really hard to actually chew and I think the

chocolate as well I think you’d really get stuck in your mouth so you want something really easy and for me I don’t know I did the banana the first time and he worked and I don’t know which for me can be a little bit superstitious as well so I’ll stick with the banana because it always works out I never thrown up during the race a lot of people get seasick a lot of people get sick maybe because you might eat too much and you throw up but I’m there has never happened to me which unlike my kayaker once but that’s a different story I know was it last year that you never let her forget it though no no no no she got so seasick and I actually saw her throwing up the entire race and I actually felt really bad for her but yeah yeah yeah that was I was pushing her come on we can do it yeah yeah yeah but you know I gave me strength and it took my day the attention from my own pain away you know because I thought man I’m not in pain

this guy was in pain yeah man and drinking you’re just drinking water to wash down two things what I normally do just pure either just water or I have I drink coconut water and I might throw some hydrolyte in the coconut water so sometimes you know I know my body just craves water and I know I just needs water but sometimes I feel a little bit more dehydrated and then I drink the the hydrolytes and again you’re only gonna learn what your body needs when you do those long swims and then you drink just the water you drink the hydrolytes and you’re going to feel the difference oh I feel a certain way or sometimes you know you just the hydrolytes even in the coconut water it’s too sweet and might make you a little bit sick in the stomach so you know when you just need the water but that’s my well with my kayak there’s only water coconut water with hydrolytes some gels and a banana that’s all you’re gonna find there there’s no no magic no other tricks it’s as simple as that

and you’re keeping track of the your every 45 minutes just with a watch on yes so I set an alarm on my watch so I don’t I don’t have to look at it that so I just I just hear it when the alarm goes off and then I know it’s time for a fee but more or less you know when when you’re swimming sometimes you want to check how long because it’s nice when you break it up like that maybe for 30 minutes and people about 45 minutes it breaks up the race in slots of 45 minutes so you don’t think of it as a 20 kilometer you just get through those 45 minutes and I think that’s a lot easier mentally to do that absolutely I think to you know running a marathon just think about going between the drink stations and yeah I think they’re every couple of K apart and that’s just an easy way to mentally get through it and as soon as you know you’re up to 30 K’s and then you’ve only got another another 12 to go and it’s like anything you

just break it down into small chunks and if you make it to that that next little bit it doesn’t seem like it’s like you’ve got that much more to go because you’re not thinking of the end in mind just keeping your your mind on the on what you’ve got to do exactly exact and throughout the race I try to stay present as much as I can and throughout the race I am thinking on my technique I’m looking at my hands is my hand at the right angle are my elbows high enough and my is my catch to deep never really thinking oh my god how much longer do I have to go oh my god this is so rough you know I’m just staying present and I’m working with my body what what can I do right here right now to make it easier for myself and you find it’s the same in the longer training swims when they’re when you haven’t got the excitement and intensity of a race happening you almost on your own on occasions you’re still able to keep your mind on your technique or does your mind tend to drift easier

well when I’m training it drifts easier for some reason I don’t know because maybe obviously I’m a little more more relaxed it’s not the race day so my mind but I try to practice sort of this mental exercise to stay positive as well because it’s just really easy to fall into a hole or go to a dark place when you’re in pain basically and when you know you have a long way to go and I don’t know so I just drift to I don’t know my family or nice holidays I had you know or think of jokes or I don’t know funny funny moments and I have that thing positive and sort of laughing keeps me going and it’s a lot easier than the end finish almost with a smile you know it wasn’t that hard yeah yeah I mean it’s only 20 K’s isn’t it it’s not that far yeah I’m keeping warm in a race so for someone who who tends to get cold in a race what would you suggest for number one keeping warm and also making sure you avoid getting

burnt and in the sun because that can definitely add up over time so what are absolutely absolutely listen I’m kind of I get cold quite easily so even two things training in the Bay helps me especially the first times I go for a swim and I’m quite hypothermic as well I actually I start mentally training I do one plus five or you know I start doing maths just to make sure I’m together I’m with it I’m just asking myself quite because at the end sometimes or if I’m training I normally swim with somebody I’ll travel I’ll tell my training buddy I say listen I’m quite cold I’m a bit disoriented I I don’t really know where I’m going so I’m just kind of gonna follow you but I practice and I stay as long as I can you know until obviously I don’t have to call the paramedics but just to your body’s gonna go through a shock so you gotta practice small shocks to give you small shocks to your body as well but something you can do is drink have a warm drink people say hot Milo for me I don’t

like drinking hot milk while I’m swimming you know so maybe some tea some herbal tea or just hot water really warming up from the inside really really helps so I luckily doing rotten ass the water temperature I’ve never needed it but in the bay which is about 18 19 degrees I do need it so it again it just depends you need to practice and you need to learn what your body is comfortable with so hot water or tea and avoiding getting sunburned I use zinc any sort of sunblock with a lot of zinc I don’t normally use any of the wool fat I don’t know I’ve never used it I never felt the need so I basically smother myself in sunblock probably 50 with zinc so there some they’re just white or others they’re sort of the color of your skin and just apply maybe 30 minutes 45 minutes before the race and I just go with that and I mean I’m quite pale you know I have freckles but I’ve never been sunburned after the race so that that works for me and what about avoiding the chase like around the

neck shoulders yeah so I just apply I don’t even use Vaseline I use popo cream and I also feel well I train with the bathers I’m normally gonna race in so I know I do at least one or two long sessions you know I normally it’s gotta be if you’re going to use one of the long suits if it’s must be fina approved to do the rotten a swim so once or twice I do a long swim the 15 case that with that swimsuit and I put the popo cream on my shoulder underneath like my armpits and for me that’s good enough I don’t I don’t have to apply during the race as well oh and behind my neck because sometimes the swimming cap my rub on the neck as well because you’re lifting your head up a few times to see where you’re going or to see where your bald is or your kayaker and and for those people listening who don’t know I don’t know if it’s a worldwide thing but poor poor cream it’s about PAW PAW so poor poor like a dog’s paw it’s normally in a red yeah little red tube that it comes in

and it’s it’s what would you call it’s almost like a lot of people use it for for chapped lips and chapped skin yeah I Vaseline will do I guess it’s just I think it’s to cure the popo cream and it will stay longer and with your race suit are you are you wearing a proper race suit or more like training by this it goes down to my knees actually for rotten as you can wear the full length that goes down to your ankle race suits I don’t know I like feeling the water so I my race suit just goes down to my knees and again must be fin approved so yeah is there any Speedo or any any sort of any sort of brand a lot of them make me they make fin approved suits that’s what I wear and how do you go I mean that’s gonna be so much faster than just a typical training your normal like your suit that you know it creates compression on your body and which also for me I helps with recovery as well so yes it’s gonna be it’s gonna

be a little or maybe a lot faster as well because it comes really high up in the neck as well so you don’t have water going inside your bay there’s you don’t want any pockets of water when you’re doing this sort of distance and what about your shoulders do they fatigue like how do they go with fatigue when a bit tighter yes so I do I do feel my shoulders getting fatigued but nothing I mean you don’t want to the size you buy it’s not even the same size you will do a hundred meter race or you know you’re 200 or 50 meters you know if you’re doing a race at the pool so you want to be a little bit more comfortable you know you want a little bit more space on your straps to do 20 kilometers but it’s gotta be tight enough so water won’t be coming through within in the neck area as well so again you know you might buy a suit and swim suit and then you go and you try it out and then you go you know this is really stiff on my shoulders you

don’t want that you don’t want that because you’re gonna battle it’s another battle something else to think of during the race so you want to be comfortable you know the entire time you that’s the worst when you either have leaking goggles or you know a suit that is rubbing for 20 kilometers how many sizes up would you normally go I go one size up for me one size up is good enough and your and your goggles what are you wearing there do you buy a brand new pair of a brand in a type that you’ve worn before or you wear goggles that you’ve I’m old school you know I’m an old school swimmer I wear Swedish goggles all the time so I just make sure I wear the mirror because I mean on the day the race the sun can be quite bright and unfortunately not everybody likes the Swedish goggles but I always swim with the Swedish goggles and make sure they’re dark and mirrored because the sunlight can also bother you when you when you take a breath yeah

absolutely that’s number one if you’re swimming with any sort of Sun around you gotta get tensioned goggles and I mean I’m the same as you I like I prefer the Swedish goggles and in a race like Rotness where you’re not in a pack you’re not drafting that’s go with what works best obviously if you’re doing a race at like the Lorne Peter pub when you’ve got a lot of people around you’re probably gonna get kicked in the face a few times the Swedish ones that that’s when you can have you gotten a black I can keep in the face before I remember you last year or the year before I think it was yeah I think I don’t know if I was the peer too but I’ve had many black eyes and a few cuts as well I come out of the water with some blood running down my face you’re old school and tough I wear padded goggles I wear different goggles it comes to because I was wearing my Swedish goggles because I cannot adjust to anything else there’s actually this other brand that I use they actually make

Swedish goggles with there’s a small protection and it’s the French brand I think it’s a nabai G or it’s spell NAI BI J I and there’s a bit more protection than your old school Swedish goggles but I’m yeah I don’t I just make them tighter for the races and I yeah I’m used I’m used to the RG bar G and I just try to get a hand especially because I know I’m wearing the Swedish goggles and I might come out with a black eye yeah and I have to say myself all week what the hell I was doing they’re like you’re swimming no not part of any five clubs and then with rot nests it’s it’s a swimmer you need to organize a boat and a kayaker as a support so how would someone go about about doing that and and what’s the process that you need to go through there for rot nests you know it’s sometimes I think the logistics is just as hard as the training because there’s you need to there’s a lot of things to think about or that you

have to organize I was very lucky and I found my skipper and my boat through gumtree I just put an ad on on gumtree and just saying you know I’m a solo swimmer from Victoria need a boat and I actually saw about 50 people looked at my end but just one replied and I was lucky enough to get a good skipper and I’m sticking with him actually but you can put an ad on gumtree there’s actually a local paper in part called Quaca Quaca is actually one of the I think it’s a marsupial one of the little awesome things that they have only on right now they’re the quackers yes yes they’re native to Ronas Island but I think it’s quaca.com.au and I put an ad there as well and I know a lot of people they found boats there and there’s actually the Ronas channel swim website itself where people are adding in putting ads need a boat need a kayaker or kayakers putting their hands up so and every time so you most importantly you need to find a boat because you can go without the kayaker

but if you have the boat you can still do the race so number one find a boat number two to me I find it easier having a kayaker because the boat leads the way kayaker follows the boat and you sort of follow the kayak and the last two years it was the very good friend best friend of mine in the kayak and you don’t necessarily have to have a kayak or somebody you know but it’s it just helps to have somebody there you know somebody who can push you or somebody you know sometimes you become a little bit soft and wingy and somebody who’ll tell you to drink some cement and hard enough that too but I’m so both and the kayak normally on the website as well and whoever has the boat they’ll normally be able to tell you where to find a kayak or if you ride the surf life saving clubs they offer some kayaks or the people there are willing to be a kayak and so or maybe you just have somebody a friend who can be your kayaker but you can hire one in Perth so online you can you can

find it luckily my my skipper has a kayak as well so I think I hit the jackpot there yeah it sounds like you’ve got pretty lucky with that in terms of where you’re sitting so you said the boats in front kayak is behind the boat and you’re behind the kayaker is that right or off to the side I’m sort of next to it so the second half so I’m sort of not exactly side-by-side you’ll be hard depending on the conditions I like having my kayak to my right I do bilateral breathing I breathe to both sides but I’m more comfortable breathing to the right so that’s where I like my kayak and just a little bit ahead I feel that if it’s a little bit ahead as well it pushes me to swim a little bit harder just it keeps my pace going so not exactly next to me perhaps a little bit ahead and in a position where I don’t basically I don’t want to lift my head up for 20 kilometers to see where the boat is where I’m going so I just want

to look to the side and look at the kayak because you know every time you lift your head up you put more strain on your back on your hips and it sinks a little bit so the more you look up the more I don’t know to me it makes my back really tired as well and what sort of cost is someone looking at to pay for for a skipper and that sort of stuff what’s what would it generally cost normally the skipper and the bow it will cost you about $1,000 $1,500 that’s the normal price you know because I mean the fuel cost that just the fuel itself is very expensive and those guys are waking up I don’t know mine at 3.50 a.m. 4 a.m. I mean I was in the water for five hours in a bit but some people might be six seven eight hours you know depending on the conditions so it’s a big day for them and I think it’s fair as well so you’re looking more or less about that $1,000 to $1,500. And is there anything else that comes to

mind that you think would help someone who’s preparing for a 20k swim or the rightness swim anything that we haven’t covered listen I the first thing that I can think of and I think it’s very important is you must get your technique right before you do that sort of distance you know your 20k because doing 20 kilometers with bad technique it’s just a long way and if you just correct the angle of your hands you know that where your high elbows or where your hand enters the water this it might make it a lot easier for the person and you don’t get as tired you know and prevent injuries as well I seen people you know coming out you know the sore shoulders but it actually had partial tears you know during the swim so I think I’m very important to get the technique right prepare yourself mentally you must go with a positive attitude because in the middle of the race everything is gonna start to hurt you know I mean you might not be getting sunburned but you have the sun you’re

hungry and you’re thirsty but it can’t drink that much you know you you can’t eat and then you have the jellyfish as well I mean last year I didn’t have but you’re getting stung by jellyfish you need to be mentally prepared for this and expect the worst really you know expect the worst to be in a lot of pain but and also expect the worst but stay positive it you really have to sit and be comfortable with yourself and in your own company and make sure you’re not gonna go to the dark place because that’s what makes it I think a bit traumatic of a swim so just staying positive really yeah I like that I like that almost it’s almost stoic philosophy where you we expect and prepare for the the worst and then if it goes any better than the worst then you you know you’ve had a good day and and it also makes you go through the this each situation so what if you end up spewing your guts up halfway through the swim

what if your kayak card drops off your your food and your gels and you’ve got nothing left so what do you need to do to put plans in place to have something there in case that does happen so it’s that’s a really good way to go about it and do you think that’s what keeps bringing you back to the swim is it is it putting yourself into the that just going having to dig deep and really force yourself to come up with something that you go to a place where you wouldn’t normally have to go it is most of us I don’t know I think I speak for myself it’s getting out of my comfort zone and I feel that every time I do this swim I go okay it might sound a bit of hocus pocus but a different state of consciousness that I have to go to and I feel that I evolve and I really get to know myself as well and there’s a lot of conversations with yourself going on through your mind because it’s not like going for a run or a bike you don’t have the visual

stimulation you cannot hear much you know your head is in the water and you can’t hear much and you’re looking at the bottom and a lot of times you cannot see the bottom and you really have to talk to yourself and keep yourself going and with a with a mental and a positive attitude so you’re gonna have a lot of crazy conversations sometimes the things I think about I don’t know I forgive people for that done things to me in the past you know I I don’t know I yeah it’s funny where even though you try to stay present but you might mind my drift sometimes and you know what if you really stay positive and present and you feel the adrenaline and the endorphins I think that’s why I keep coming back because the feeling like in the middle and especially after that adrenaline and the endorphin I it’s really hard to replicate that in any other situation in life I love that I’ve been listening to a book called

Stealing Fire by two guys Jamie Will and Steven Kotler and it’s but it’s basically about that it’s it put it how do you put yourself in situations where you’re going to flow and how do you do that on a on a regular basis and and using that to I guess you know get the feelings of the dopamine release the yeah it’s really hard to get that elsewhere yeah that that’s right like they talk about being able to do it in the most sort of obvious one or typical one is like bass jumpers and people who are doing crazy stuff like that but you can also get it from like surfing from doing these long distance endurance events and and like I think to I think to surfing and for me that’s probably my number one sort of how I get into to flow is surfing number two is probably swimming and you know I’m just always like every morning I’ll typically check the surf report and it’s just because I want to get into that to that state because it it feels so good and like just time sort of doesn’t mean

much and yeah and it helps a lot in in everyday life just in sort of quietening my my mind and getting me to look at situations differently and more rationally as well so doing that through whatever activity activity it is that does it for you I think it’s just like that’s a that’s a big part of life is being able to get into to that flow state on a regular basis and really going deep on occasions like you do with the rotten a swim absolutely I mean it’s you have to dig deep and it’s it’s also a great thing to be able to control your mind and I’ll let your mind control you you know and especially under those extreme situations you know if you can apply this concept you know when you’re swimming or in extreme situations it’s going to be a lot easier to apply on your daily life so that’s that’s something it’s not easy you know you need to practice that yeah absolutely so that’s that’s fantastic thanks for thanks for sharing everything that you that you’ve

learned along the way for the last couple of rotten a swims and you’re doing it again this year well next year in 2018 so exactly to see how you go there and then see what happens after that so Sandra thank you very much for joining me it’s been that being great and hopefully you can get a couple of base swims in in the lead up to to swim February thank you Brenton I’m hope some of my tips on my experience I hope it was helpful for those ones listening out there and yeah hopefully I’ll come back with some happy stories maybe next year thanks for listening to the effortless swimming podcast if you’d like us to help you become a faster more efficient swimmer go to www.effortlesswimming.com