Welcome to the Effortless Swimming Podcast to show that help swimmers and triathletes love the water, become a better swimmer and live a better life. Here’s your host, Brenton Ford.

Welcome to the Effortless Swimming Podcast. I’ve got a guest on today who I had on last year in November. It’s Josh Sally. Welcome back to the podcast. Hi, Brenton. Thanks for having me again. Absolute pleasure. So I was looking at the date when I had you on last and like, oh, yeah, I’m curious as to when that was and I can’t believe it was nearly seven or eight months ago. That time is absolutely flown. And on the previous podcast that we recorded in November, we had you on to talk about your story of starting triathlon, essentially almost starting from scratch with your swimming and going from hardly able to finish 25, 50 meters to being able to swim around a 135 pace for your half Ironman swim, which is a huge achievement in the space of about 18 months from going from scratch to that. And I want to get you back on the podcast just to talk about what you’ve been working on a bit of an update because you’ve had some, I think breakthroughs

with your technique and your swimming, which we’ll talk about. And I think there’ll be a lot of other athletes who are listening to this podcast who will be able to relate because I know so many swimmers who get to a point where they’re not comfortable in the water or they’re not comfortable in a race. And they maybe struggle with that side of things. And you’ve had a bit of a breakthrough there, which I’d love to talk about. So just to kind of kick things off, do you want to talk a bit about a bit of an update on what’s happened over the last seven, eight months since you’ve been on? Yeah, sure. So yeah, going back to last season, yeah, it did have a couple of good swims. So kicking off this season, I just wanted to get more consistent really, feel more confident in the water, and just get the fitness and just progress it that way. So the races I’ve had so far, the swims have been pretty consistent across the board. So I

just put that down to the consistency I’ve put in, in the open water, in just getting the wetsuit on, just spending time in the water. And just it’ll go from feeling daunting in the beginning, the swim to you’re turning up on race morning, you’re looking at the course. And yeah, it’s surprising how comfortable it can feel quite quickly, just with the consistency. Talk to me about the race you just had on Sunday. So you had the Swansea Half Ironman. You’re talking off the off the podcast that you first time you’re able to follow feet, and how relaxed and how calm you were out there, which hadn’t really been the case in any of the previous races where I think the race before was another Half Ironman where you said you felt quite tight in the chest and you’re just worried about the time and what was coming up. And so a radical difference between those between the last race and the one that you’ve just had. So I’d love for you to talk about what

that experience was like and what a difference it was for you and how it came to to be because I think that’s what a lot of people are probably wondering, it’s like, how do I get comfortable? How do I follow feet? How does that happen for you? Yeah, sure. So leading up to the race, I was doing a lot of open water swimming. It was it was most of my most of my swimming volume, especially in the last two weeks. I was in there maybe three times a week. There were other people in there with me. So the more you do that, the more comfortable you get with having people around you, you can practice, you know, just swimming behind someone and just being more spatially aware really. So yeah, going back to the ratio referred to, it was a pretty hectic start, which, you know, it is pretty common. But yeah, as I was going around, I just had kind of the wrong, the wrong headspace at the time I was thinking, time, what I had next, who was behind me, who

was in front of me, and that can just throw you off your swim, throw you off your rhythm. So for this swim, I just did Swansea 70.3. And yeah, it was a rolling start. So a bit less hectic. But as I went in straightaway, I felt more relaxed, more spatially aware. I felt like I kind of knew what was going on. I remained calm. It wasn’t really the plan to find feet. It just kind of happened. So I just kind of took off from the swim start and just saw someone in front. So I was going, I was going to slightly faster pace than them. But I just figured I’ll just swim directly behind them really, whether it was like perfect swim etiquette, I don’t know because as I was swimming, I was kind of tickling his feet as he was going. So he probably wasn’t my biggest fan. But yeah, gave it a go and felt the benefit straightaway. So gaps appeared, and I would kind of move off. I’d sight and then I’d see someone else kind of bridge up to them, swim alongside them or

swim behind them. And it was just a completely different headspace, just felt calm, relaxed. Heart rate felt relatively low, just kept a solid consistent tempo. And yeah, there was there was no kind of no kind of panic, or anything like that. Even felt a jellyfish in there, which which was interesting. But even that to some extent, you know, just as coming from a background of being a non swimmer and like generally having a fear of the open water, to be honest, like that a few years ago, I’d be straight out the side, I wouldn’t care about the triathlon, I’d be hanging on to a kayak or something. But yeah, felt it. And I was just like, Oh, that’s a jellyfish carried on swimming and just kept a solid tempo, solid rhythm. And yeah, it got me a decent time in the end.

If you ever want to have your heart rate go from 100 to 180, put your hands through a jellyfish. I threw a jellyfish. Yeah, when I was surfing, I was just I was out there and I put my hand through one. And it’s not the only time it’s happened. And it scared the crap out of me. And it’s like, you pretty realize, okay, it’s a jellyfish, it’s cool, you know, that’s fine. But man, my heart rate just goes straight up whenever they have one of the jellyfish like out there compared to the Swansea jellyfish about there a bit different. Oh, no, there’s these ones are fine. They’re not not stingers or anything. It’s not like I’m up in with blue bottles or anything. We’re at the moment down here in Victoria. But if it was a blue bottle or something else, it would be a different story. In terms of following feet, I think everyone sort of gets the concept, sit behind someone, you can save almost 30% of your energy if you’re

drafting correctly behind someone. And in terms of the etiquette, we don’t want to touch their feet. But sometimes that that happens. So I’ll often try and just stay a little bit wide with the hands if or just hang it slightly, slightly back. But for the first time following feet, do what you want. You know, that’s a win in itself being able to get on someone’s on someone’s feet. And you did a lot of open water swimming in the lead up to this latest race. What do you feel like the impact of that was, let’s say, rather than going to the open water three times a week, you’d bring to the pool instead. Do you think there would have been a difference there with your awareness in the open water with how you felt? Talk to me about that. So the main difference for me is the comfort factor, having your head in the water and just feeling comfortable. So there were there were a few participants around me who, as I was getting

in, they were getting out and they were like, I can’t do it. You know, I’m panicking. I’m putting my head in. I just don’t like it. And that was me, you know, like it’s it’s not nice in the beginning, but like, trust me, like I have had like a genuine fear of open water. The more you do it, you just you get comfortable in the environment you’re in. So yeah, that was that was a big factor. And then also being comfortable in your wetsuit, being confident in your equipment, the swim itself. I me personally, I was swimming nonstop. So I do like 45 minutes to an hour of nonstop swimming at just like different, different paces, different tempos, practicing different turnovers with the arms. And I felt like that helped me a lot. Like the more I was doing that session by session, the less fatigue I was getting, I was able to swim 45 minutes at a decent pace without feeling fatigue. Whereas like last season, probably

talking about half an hour at a pretty steady pace. I just I’m just not I felt like I was getting different, different benefits than pool swimming. Because at the end of the day, it is different. If there’s been a chop, you know, being comfortable with breathing a bit higher, for example, it’s all stuff you kind of have to learn. So when it comes to race day, that stuff isn’t new. You can kind of adapt. Like in the race, it did get I did get in a bit of a group, and it got really choppy. You’re kind of taken on saltwater and stuff like that. You I was able to adapt straight away to how I was breathing where I was breathing. And it just kept me calm. And another thing with a nonstop breathing that the nonstop swimming is it just gave me more time to think. So it where I swim is a simple up and back. So you just loop on yourself. So I’d go easier. And then I’d go harder on the way down, easier, harder on the way down. So

the easy laps, I’m swimming with as good a technique as possible. And then on the harder laps, I’m trying to maintain the good technique, but at a faster tempo, which is difficult. But the more I was doing it, the more I felt like, God, like, this works, that works, the body connects better like this better like that. And I think that is just that just progressed my swimming and my open water swimming. It just pushed it on even more leading up to this race. Yeah, I like what you said there at the end about figuring out kind of what works because I think you have this we all have this innate sense of how how we’re moving through the water. And generally, we kind of know how we’re how we’re going and our body has a way of figuring out the usually the most efficient movement to go through there. So especially if you’re doing those those long consistent nonstop swims and just going easy on the way down, you’re going

fast on the way back, you sort of figure out what you need to do to be able to swim fast and do that efficiently, where you can sustain it. And that kind of thing, I think helps a lot, especially in the open water. So I really like that you’re able to get there so often. And so many people have that fear of open water and they’re like, Oh, where do I start? But I think it’s like anything that you are afraid of, it’s like just start small. If you’re afraid of the open water, go to waist depth, just hang out there or swim 20 meters along the along the side, just where you can still stand up and just progressively build into it. Because there’s no point trying to overcome your fear by going and doing a 2k swim on your own in a choppy ocean straight away, just progressively build up like you have. And you can get to that point where you’re calm, you’re swimming well. It is possible. It’s just a matter of being patient

with it and being willing to put in there in the time. And one of the things that you mentioned before we started this podcast was your just sort of wrote down a few notes about your progression and how you saw that evolve. And I’d love for you to to go through that because I think I see this with a lot of the athletes that I coach. It’s a very similar progression. And I think knowing of knowing about what that progression is, it sets people up on what to expect going forward. So if you’d be happy to share that, I think that’d be great for the listener. Yeah, sure. So yeah, I did a bit of just reflecting really on my own swim journey. And for me, it was it started with the basics. So quickly I learned that it was a technique heavy sport. Everyone said, you know, technique is the most important thing focus on your technique, efficiency. So I thought, right, I need to make my technique better. So purely focused on the basics. To be

honest, I wasn’t I was I was sort of like coaching myself at the time, just kind of learning how to swim. So I wasn’t really wasn’t necessarily doing swim workouts. I was just going up, down, up, down, trying to get my technique filming myself. And doing a bit of self analysis. And alongside your videos, and just taking the cues that you were teaching and just practicing really, just just trying to nail it. I then obviously went on to do the catch challenge that you offer, which I highly recommend just isolating the catch on its own really helped my swim really, really helped my swim at the time. So yeah, for me, basics, then consistency. So at one point I was in there every day, you probably know, so I was probably sending you a video maybe every day. But I was literally in there like six, seven times a week. It may not be for like a really long time, but just I’d, I’d go back, watch a video, not be happy with something or pick up

something else. And then I’d be back in to try and to try and get it really when I felt like my stroke was at a decent place. Obviously with your help as well. I focused more on my fitness. So consistency and fitness, I started up in the sets, dropped the swim into maybe three days a week, but just doing solid workouts. Then I started focusing a bit more on pace, which was important at this stage, because in the beginning I was very hung up on pace, which it can be good and it can be quite bad. Because if you’re always chasing that pace, you’re not really focusing on your technique or what I find you might be doing something technically well. But if you’re focusing on the pace too much, you’re going to be swimming with poor technique and just chasing the pace, which isn’t really helpful. For me, it was kind of like I was in like the 150s, then it goes to the 140s, then it goes to the 130s and you’re thinking, oh, this is going well, and then

you might start knocking on like the 120s and you’re thinking, you know, you’re thinking, wow, but don’t get too hung up on the pace because like for me now, I obviously know in the beginning I was in the 25 meter pool. Obviously your pace drops with the longer pool kind of generally. So I was training in 15 meter. Felt like I was absolutely flying when in a 25 meter. And then I’m just I’ve dropped like five seconds per 100. I’m thinking, oh, this this is terrible. Like it was going on. Then you get a bit faster in the 25, then you go to the 50 and then the 50 smacks you in the face and you’re thinking, I’m literally back to square one. So yeah, don’t focus too much on the pace. Just use it as more of use it as a tool of measurement and a motivator, but it’s not to be all an end all. There’s people with amazing technique that I see who are getting out swarmed by people with poorer technique that just they’re just fit or more efficient.

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link formswim.com forward slash effortless or use the coupon effortless at checkout. And that will get you 15% off your pair of goggles using our special link formswim.com forward slash effortless or the code effortless at checkout. So for me personally now, I feel like I’m at the place where I’m happy with my technique. My swims have been consistent across the board this season. And to my last race where I feel like I’m starting to develop more of that race awareness and the comfort in the water and not letting it be a factor in the race that I’m dreading. So yeah, for me, for me, that was my that was my progression. But I say all the time, I can’t emphasize enough. It starts with the basics and people who are it’s hard with Strava where you’re watching your friends and, you know, you can see their average pace and I was exactly I was exactly the same. And it can get you down and you can’t let that hold you back. You need to be

realistic, focus on the basics and keep keep working on the basics. Like, you know, that there’s plenty of my stroke that I can I can work on. And I even go back to some of your videos where you will talk about the catch, for example, or the kick, like even now, and then I watch it and I’ll be like, that makes more sense to me now. Whereas in the beginning, I’d watch it in the beginning and it’d be like, I got to do that. I go to swim, I couldn’t do it and I forget about it. But now I’m like revisiting the videos and I’m thinking, yeah, that really resonates for me and I’ll practice it and I’ll be able to do a lot better than the beginning. I think obviously the basics, you’ve got to have those technical basics and foundations in place first. If you can be patient and just practice that for several weeks with some consistency, that’s going to set you up to be able to improve your times just like, like you’ve done. I think people often want to

just get the, get the fitness up first, which yes, you certainly need some sort of fitness there, but they just want to do the training side of it first and go, yeah, like technical. I might just think about something and I’ll keep it in mind, but I most people don’t really know what they’re doing unless they see themselves on video. And I think that’s like, when I look at it as from a coach’s perspective at your progression, I think, well, there was that consistency how like how often you were swimming. That’s a huge factor. You video yourself very regularly. You got someone to, to give you feedback. So you had that outsider looking in as well and you were patient and it’s like you look, you talk about those couple of things. It’s like, well, someone does that. There’s got a pretty good shot of having some good improvement and progression there. So, you know, it’s no it’s no secret as to as to why you’ve come as far as you’ve come. It’s just

the willingness and commitment to be able to do it. And I think it is easy to, you know, to look at Strava with people and but that doesn’t tell the whole story. Like I had a swim a few weeks ago and I think I was late. So I just I did like 400 warm up and I had fins on. So I was going pretty quick with it. And then we’re just doing fast, like repeat 50s and 100s. So my average pace for the set was like a 113. And I’m like, I’ve never done that before. But that doesn’t tell the whole story. So I was wearing fins. It was just short repeats and going fast. And yeah, and if I look for someone else doing that, I’m like, oh, Jesus, I’m not like I’m not doing enough here. Yeah, I need to do better. But yeah, like it’s easy to get sucked into into that and try and run someone else’s race. Yeah, I was just thinking an important thing as well is there is a lot of information out there on swimming. Obviously, I’ve like solely relied on or put my

trust in you and being coached by you. So I’ve kind of got one voice. But there’s so much information on YouTube. And it’s easy to go around in circles, which I did get stuck doing that at one point, you can go for a swim like you can watch a video and someone may say something and then someone will literally say something else. And you look at this guy’s credentials and they’re they’re pretty good credentials. So you’re like, I, how can I not, how can I not trust this guy? But I suppose another place where I am in my own personal development is figuring out what works for you. So even recently, where we were doing a bit of analysis, and I was filming, and I said to you, like I felt like I was crossing over on my on my entry. And I said to you, I think I should go like extra wide. It feels pretty good. And I was doing that for a while. My times didn’t really change too much. But in my head, it felt more comfortable. And then the

next week, I saw another video funny enough, and it was just like too much too many videos out there. And someone was swimming completely different where they did have their entry was kind of in the midline of their body. And I thought, well, that’s how I naturally swim. So I thought, well, maybe I should just keep giving that ago. And I did. And it just it just clicked. It just felt it just felt better. It just felt way better. But my point is I was going around in circles overthinking. And I think the overthinking can especially as a beginner, it can hold you back a lot. So I think the benefit of doing the the open water swims, where I had a bit more time to think on the slower laps, was I was just solely focusing on how I felt in the water, like, am I getting good purchase on the war? Am I pulling myself through? How does it feel? And yeah, I think that that really really helped me. And now that I’ve got that, I’m going to

cling on to that. As long as I don’t change my mind again and send you a video that asks me your advice.

Well, looking at the latest videos, you you’ve got such strong foundations now. We look at like your catch is very consistent, very consistently good. The path that your hands are following there, for the most part, they’re following your body line. So just like the outside line of your body. Whereas in the past, you were going quite wide on a lot of strokes and just missing out on a lot of connection with your strokes. And so that’s just become a habit from what I can see in the videos. And and just the rhythms good, your head positions consistently in a better spot because you have that tendency to look forwards. So a lot of these things are becoming a habit now. And I think with the with the training that you’re doing and the experience that you’re getting, you’ve got another maybe is it one race this season left to do? Yeah, so I’ve got my first full distance. So yeah, so giving it a big one on this podcast about feeling

comfortable in the swim.

It might come back to haunt me. So we’ll see.

So that like that’ll be and for that for that swim, I’d say just same strategy as what you had at Swansea is yeah, go out it just times it by two. Yeah, just times it by two easy.

And then thinking like, you know, next next season, when you have a chance to do another half iron man, when you go out there and you your sight, well, maybe a fine feat, but you are pushing that the pace that little bit higher, like I think you can have a quite a breakthrough with your time there when you when everything comes together and you’re pushing the pace a bit because it sounds like the race that you just had was everything was pretty much pretty much they just were able to keep the heart rate quite low. And when you’ve got the confidence, I guess, just to know that you can go that little bit harder, like that’s that’s just easily a sub a sub 30 from what I can see from what you’ve been been doing. What are your thoughts around that? Does that sound like where you feel like you’d be? Definitely. Yeah. So yeah, my swims have been consistent across the board really. So I did one of the 70.3 swim, but it was a lake swim.

And what was my time there? I was I think it’s about like 30 minute, maybe like bang on 30 something. So yeah, the the consistency is definitely there. But I think the progression for me now is being even more confident at that distance in the swim and maybe just being more assertive and just having confidence in my because I’m still fairly new to it. So in my head in the last race, I was thinking if I do at the pace, is it going to is it going to bite me on on the on the way back? You know, so I was just kind of in like a comfortable kind of pace. But yeah, I think I’m definitely going to kind of take more risks in the swim and yeah, just see how it goes. But in the open water, just maybe increase the laps where I’m doing more threshold and tempo work and just get in the shoulders and the arms and the body used to it. So I think that would be the next the next step really for next season.

And one of the things that you mentioned prior to the call as well was when you seeded yourself up at the start of the race. So, you know, going would say about maybe 50th in the in the water out of everyone there and you think oh, do I belong here? Kind of should should be. And I was on another podcast earlier this week on the Tri-Vallet podcast. And I’ll tell the story here because I think it’s relevant. So in in surfing, if there’s a couple of people out, let’s say there’s five or six people out and there’s sort of one peak, people are generally pretty considerate. So you’ll take turns and you’ll just kind of make your way along to the peak. And as a wave comes, you’ll take off and then the next person will go and I was surfing last week and that was a situation. There was just waves coming breaking in one spot. And there was about six of us out and there was this one guy who was a bit more of a beginner. He could surf, but he was a

bit more of a beginner and he lacked the confidence to sit with everyone and just make his way along. So he was sitting wide of the peak and catching no waves because he didn’t have the confidence to to move up. But if he just had the confidence to say, look, you know what, I belong there. He would have got waves. No one would have minded, even if he fell off taking off the wave, but he just lacked the confidence to get himself up there. I think that the reason I tell that story is because it’s the same thing in triathlon, just seeding yourself up there and thinking, look, I actually belong here. I can mix it with the with these guys. Look, maybe they obviously there’s people who are faster than me. But if I just put myself in the mix, I’m going to be able to get such a better result because I’m just I’m up there and I’m in there rather than maybe hanging off to the side in the swim and staying five meters clear of everyone, just being

comfortable being in amongst everyone. So yeah, I thought that was I thought that was interesting because it happens in a lot of different areas. Yeah, 100 percent, 100 percent. I was actually stood in the queue for the swim with two friends and both like really good age group triathletes, both solid swimmers and I stood there and the one turned around to me and then she was like, oh, go on, Josh, get ahead of me because you’re going to be way faster than me. And I was just like, I looked at I was like, I’m not sure about that. But I thought, OK, I’ll give it a go. So it’s just kind of like a shot in the dark. But I think once when you’re in those towards the front, it’s a lot less hectic. So I remember in the way much swim, I put myself. I didn’t put myself. I think they do like sub 25 and then back. So I wasn’t in like the sub 25. I was like further back. But when you get in, it’s a lot harder to overtake loads of slow switch like

slower swimmers than it is just to kind of stay at your own pace. So I generally find like the faster swimmers find their way around you anyway, if that makes sense. Because, yes, it’s hard work because I think people do see themselves quite confidently. And when you get to that first turn or second turn and they all of a sudden stop and that their pace completely drops off, it does disturb your stroke and your swim. So yeah, I actually had an experience in the 70.3. Yeah, the 70.3. The first one I did this season and we were doing the swim warmer in the lake. The race organizer called us over. I swam over to the edge. I thought he’s going to give us like a little safety briefing or something before we go. Soon as I get back to the edge, he’s like, right, three, two, one, and then I’m literally at the front of this race on this swim. Everyone takes off. And I was like, oh my god, just have to like turn around and just absolutely full gas

the other way. And that was carnage. But it’s it’s all good experience at the end of the day is it’s all good racing experience. And the more you do it, the more situations you find yourself in. Like in that race, I was in a bit of a like a wrestle with someone. Someone was like really like pulling me back and stuff like that. And like if if the, you know, the triathlon is your game and the swimming and the triathlon is just experience and getting used to all of that. And it can only be a good thing really. Yeah. And that’s something you’ve you’ve collected a lot of that experience over the last 18 plus plus months. And you mentioned that some friends and people have asked you for advice, you know, what how have you gotten so quick with your swimming? How have you had good success with it? What what are some things that you’ve told them? What advice would you give to someone who’s been doing triathlon for 12 months, 24 months? And they’re just not really

getting anywhere with their swim. So a major one I kind of see is they will think that their technique is enough. I don’t want to say good, but well, yeah, good. They’ll say I don’t understand why I’m not doing these times or, you know, I feel like my technique is really good. And I’m like, you know, do you know that it’s good? Like what sort of analysis are you doing? You know, how’s your catch looking? You know, how’s it all looking? And they’re like, you know, it’s good. It feels good. And I’m just like, you need whether it’s a coach on deck or video analysis or, you know, you need analysis. In my opinion, you know, there’s pools you can go to where you can film. There’s places you can go for like one to one coaching. You need to do those foundational efforts. And I think like the people I’m speaking to, they’re doing swim workouts, whatever they may be. And they’re thinking, well, why aren’t I getting faster? But if you’re doing the workouts

and you’re not really, you know, you can go out and run and run and run and run and run and you’re going to progressively get better at running. But swimming is not necessarily like that because you can go and swim and swim and swim. But you’re going to get stuck if you’re not really focusing on your technique, your efficiency. So for me, straight away, I was obsessed with the skill of swimming. I’ve always been like a little bit obsessed with like skill-based sports. I love seeing like people who are like masters of their crafts, so to speak. Like when you see like a really good swimmer, it’s just I just think it’s like really good on the eye. I just love watching it. It looks amazing. And when I see that, I’m like, how can I get like that? How can I be like that? That was my first thought. Not how can I get faster? How can I get fair? I was like, I need to swim like this person. Like it just looks absolutely amazing. And I think people need to go in

there with that kind of mindset where, yes, you can spend a full season doing these, you know, tough swim workouts. But if you’re getting out absolutely, absolutely gassed, you have no idea how you swam, what it looked like. All you know is your pace started off OK, it gradually got slower and you’re absolutely knackered. Then I just don’t think that’s very productive. Actually, sort of the thing I find interesting as well is you see like top, top swimmers say that they focus on their technique like the podcast you did with Josh Lewis, for example. And he said he still watches your videos and is obsessed with technique and focuses on technique. And I saw one with Lucy Charles Barkley, like the best female swimmer in triathlon, said that she does sets of 50 meters focused on technique. I’m thinking, well, why do these people need to focus on technique? You know, they’re like some of the best swimmers in the sport. But yeah, what I was doing

is allowing myself time to think. So I’d go to the pool to do the shorter laps. Even if you’ve got to stop on the side and just think, how did that feel? And just just go back that way really. So yeah, that’s the main thing I see with beginners. And they’re too hung up on pace and it’s a slow burner. Like people progress at different rates, like that’s for sure. Like some things just click better with some people. But you need to become it depends how quickly you want to progress. But me personally, you need to be obsessed with it. And the more obsessed you are, the quicker your your progress really. Yeah, yeah, I love it. That’s that’s great advice. You know, maybe think of this analogy. It’s like when someone thinks how they swim and then they actually see themselves swim, it’s like I’ve never had to do this before. But think of maybe my wife or some some women out there. It’s like putting makeup on. If you had to do that without a mirror and go out

in public, you probably wouldn’t do it.

You need that you need to actually see yourself doing it. So yeah, it’s like if you if you think you know how you swim, it’s it’s like putting makeup on without a mirror. So I had them. Yeah, that was a really good analogy. But I had one like right at the beginning, really, when I was coming up to my first race and I watched your video and it was the the smoothest hundred meter freestyle that we do. You’ve got on YouTube of the Olympic, the actual Olympic swimmer. Yeah, yeah. And I just thought, wow, that is like one of the most majestic things I’ve ever seen the way he’s like moving through the water. And I thought, well, that needs to be me. Like, I need to do this. So I go in the water, set my camera and I’m thinking, right, well, like, what’s he doing? And he’s got like that amazing. Maybe I’ll send you the video like he’s got that amazing. He’s got like a two beat kick, isn’t he? It’s like a really like just yeah, yeah. It’s just a really smooth

and it’s just gliding in and he just gliding. It looks completely effortless. And I thought, right, that’s what I need to do. Two beat kick. I just need to like glide through the water. And oh, my God, I did it. I watched the video back. I think my feet are like dragging along the floor. It was just really bad. But in my head, I’m thinking I’ve absolutely nailed this like I’m swimming like this dude. But yeah, that’s why I was saying I quickly realized like that isn’t going to work for me. That doesn’t work for me. That guy is the elite of the elite. What he can do, I can’t do. I need to figure out how I can be the best that I can be whatever that is. And when you do it and do it consistently, your body has a good way of learning what worked, I find. So in the open water swimming now, I’m finding and that’s how I think my swims will become pretty consistent across the board is because I’ve done it consistently now for just over

a year. And it’s just picked it up. Like, for example, when I think I went like two or three weeks without any analysis and I was doing purely open water swimming. Then I went back in the pool. It was videoing myself in the pool and I watched it back and I was just like, well, that’s really good. I can’t believe I swam like that. Whereas before it was kind of reversed, whereas I thought I was swimming good, but I wasn’t swimming good. Whereas now it’s more consistent in my head. I’m thinking I haven’t swum in a while. This isn’t going to look this isn’t going to look pretty where I’ll come back and watch it. And there’s just a lot more a lot more consistency with it. Yeah. Yeah. And we’ve seen we’ve seen that with the last couple of videos. Just the straight looks consistently good and there’s not many changes. Like things aren’t falling apart with it. You’re not going reverting to old old ways, which is which is great to see.

So, Josh, I really appreciate you jumping back on the on the podcast and appreciate you like I love working with you and and to see someone who’s had such huge progress in over the last year and a half plus and and someone who’s committed to it and you said you love to see like the mastery of something and get obsessed with with things that say and all this all this work that you’ve done in that time and not going to go to waste either. This is this is a life skill that you’re going to have forever and you’ve got yourself up to this point where like you now you’ve now got it. You can now swim comfortably. You can now swim strong with good technique. It’s like you just people have to you have to get yourself up to that up to that point and you’re putting the the work and the hours to do that, which is which is great to see. So I’m really looking forward to the full distance Iron Man and then what you do after that. So I appreciate you being on the podcast

and being willing to share because I know it can be a lot to put yourself out there as well, you know, because people might look up look at your results and all this sort of stuff and we’ll break it to them. This one said that you got it. You got a flat on the bike so didn’t get to finish that that race. Don’t remind me. Don’t remind me.

I know you’re written all over it that day.

Yeah, that’s right. I think you were in top of the podium otherwise. So yeah, but no, thanks so much, Josh. I appreciate it. Many last words before we finish up. Yeah, so yeah, likewise, it’s been an absolute pleasure working with you. I know you like keep on the praise for me, but truthfully and honestly, my rate of progression just kicked on when we started working together. Obviously, I’m fortunate enough to have like the one on one analysis with you, but any resource people can get, like I’m triathlon is an expensive sport. So, you know, I’m sure there are areas where you can maybe like not by the fancy tires or something and just invest a little bit in your swimming. And yeah, I want to point people in your direction. And even if they progress a little bit, like not as fast as I did, it will just make a huge difference. And like I know where I am now, but like I just want to say like I’ve been there, you know,

like I went to the local Olympic pool with all the incredible swimmers, you know, you rock up in your Speedos and your swim cap and you feel like you look a bit too pro than you feel. You try going up and down and it’s not as easy as it looks. And then the person next to you is absolutely flying and it’s a tough sport. It’s easy to get discouraged, but just you’ve got to fall in love with it. You know, you’ve got to fall in love with it. And for me personally, people saying you’re a good swimmer is like the best feeling is better than saying you’re a good runner, good cyclist. And I think that’s the mindset you need to go in there with. You know, you need to kind of adopt the lifestyle, like, you know, get it on your Instagram feed, get it on your YouTube and just, just absorb it all and just always, always, always, always keep learning and just look out for those cues. You know, there’s plenty of videos on Instagram, YouTube

and people even now that they’ll mention something and they’ll just click and it’ll just resonate. And that’s the way it works. But when that stuff is in front of you all the time, like I said, on your Instagram feed, on your YouTube, there’s a lot of really good information out there. And it’s just a constant, constant development. And yeah, you will keep, you will keep learning, you will keep developing, but just love it. You know, it’s a great sport, it’s great for your health, great for your mental health as well. And yeah, just go at your own pace and just, yeah, just love the sport and you’ll get there. Great way to end it. Thanks so much, Josh. I’ll talk to you soon. Thanks, Brandon. See you man. Thanks for listening to the Effortless Swimming podcast. If you’d like us to help you become a faster, more efficient swimmer, go to www.effortlesswimming.com.