Welcome to the Effortless Swimming podcast to show that help swimmers and triathletes love the water, become a better swimmer and live a better life. Here’s your host, Brenton Ford. Welcome to episode number 111 of the Effortless Swimming podcast. On today’s episode, it is the Rotness recap. So we’ve got the winners, Solomon Wright and Heidi Gann, who won the male and female section in both record times. So Solomon just went under four hours, Heidi went, I think it was 421. So incredible swims by both the guys. And I’ve got them on the podcast talking about their lead up to the race, how they fueled their pacing, their strategy. And you’ll also hear that both of them had a bit of an interrupted lead up. So they essentially got six weeks of good training in the lead up to the race. Whereas before that, Solomon was injured, Heidi was sick for a number of weeks. So we go into a bit of detail about what they did to combat that and how they managed to put six weeks of training in to still get a good result.

I’ve also got the Sandra DiCavallo on the podcast, who’s my friend who was on a few earlier episodes. And we talk about how we went at the race and how we found it. So let’s get into the first interview with Solomon Wright, the winner of the Rotness Channel Swim for 2018. First of all, congratulations on your win at Rotness. And we were talking just earlier about your very little preparation or amount of training leading up to the race. So you were out injured and out injured for three months. And then you only managed to get six weeks of training in before the race. Can you talk a bit about what happened there and then your lead into the race? Yeah, about October last year, I was at the World Cup in China and then again in Hong Kong and my shoulders went. And I was a bit of a setback after massive base through the winter and through the summer previous. So then I was out for three months and with a few quarter zones in each shoulder.

And then on Christmas, I decided to get back into it and then targeted Roto as my main thing. And that sort of was a bit of a reach at the time. But I got back in the water and seriously was into physio and all my rehab exercises and building up my training. I really just did a big, long, slow six week build into Rotness and then managed to come away. It’s unreal. Was there anything over that slow three months that you’re out? Were you doing any other type of training where you’re running or riding to keep your aerobic fitness up? Or was it just all physio? It was just all physio. I did a single bit because the shoulder session advised me to not exercise too much while the quarter zones were sitting in there and doing their job. Did you have quite a big base before that? Do you feel like that kept you going enough to be able to pick up from that? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, because when I got injured, I was at peak fitness at World Cup.

So it was sort of going from peak fitness back into normal. So I don’t think I would have been able to do the result I had off without that base really, without those winter Ks. But I mean, it was just the starting point, getting my speed and my distance back up. And the Ks under my belt were a lot easier after that base for sure. What sort of Ks are you doing in the six weeks leading up to the race? Oh, because I was just going off how what my body was telling me I was building. So I obviously had planned out weeks in advance. You know, I want to do 50 Ks this week, 60 Ks that week and then back off before the race. So I started off with two K sessions around Christmas time and then built up to 1.5 K sessions and then 3 K sessions and 4, 5 and 6 and 7 and 8. So two weeks out, I did, I think the biggest was 65 K week, two weeks out. And then I sort of did a lighter week to get a little bit fresher and then race.

Yeah, right. That’s that’s unreal. Did you find that the pain or the injury was starting to flare up at all? Or you’re able to manage that quite well? Oh, it did. But whenever it did, I’ve got a massive support network behind me. Physios and we’ve got my surgeons and my doctors. So if there was an issue, I’d go chat to them. But I’ve got all my exercises and just talking to my physio, getting like late minute sessions, treatments. And my coach is really good too. I was working very closely with her at Miami and, you know, just being asking for help because I needed it. And what sort of sessions were you doing? Like what was the, you know, how much sort of long, easy distance ones were you doing? Was there much that you’re doing at sort of threshold or kind of rotten-ness pace? What was the general outline for a week? Well, because of the, because of the way that the race is, you know, it’s such a long race

and it’s not, it’s not a pack swim in as much as other, you know, the Olympic distances and nationals. You might be, you might be in a pack for a long time, but because you’re finding your own canoe and your own boat, you’re sort of doing your own thing. So you really need to, because I didn’t last year as well, I figured that I really need to know your own pace and know where I’m at. So every session was, you know, do you warm up and then straight to more like goal was every session straight to a roto pace or, you know, roto feel was what I was trying to go for. You know, that feeling in the second 10K where you’re, you’re working, but you’re not, you’re not going to, you’re not going to die anytime soon because you don’t want to die with a few kilometers to go. So I’ll sort of warm me up and then going straight into that pace for as pretty much as long as I could. And then building up that pace every week and then going down.

And that’s it. And I mean, you, so you broke the record, which was just under four hours, which is, I’m sure you’re glad to, to get that extra sort of 30 seconds and get under four hours because it’s not, you know, event you’re going to go and do every, you know, every week. So that’s, which is such a quick time. And were you thinking that you could hold around a 112 pace? Well, I’d sort of train around that pace anyway, that is my sort of in the pool, you know, roto pace. If you’re going to be going super long cases, you’d be training for holding, you know, 109s, 108s. When I was in peak fitness, I was even holding 107s before World Cup. But, but, you know, for this roto, for this buildup, I was holding around there anyway. And then I was just trying to, the key was make sure that I could hold that because I knew that four hours would be roughly 112s. And if you can, everyone can do, well, not everyone, but it’s a lot easier to think almost

than this for 20. That second 10K is where the real clincher is. And if you can just hold your pace and not drop off, then you’re going to do well. So that’s what I was really focusing on in my training. And then so I sort of knew that when I was ticking my arms over, you know, getting good tempo going, I sort of knew that I was on a good pace. I didn’t quite know that I’d be exactly 112s and just to sneak under four. I didn’t really have a clue, but I knew that I was at a good tempo and I just helped out. Right. And then the result was what it was. Did you have the race feel? So sort of going through, you know, the first 10Ks, how’d that feel? And then, you know, with five to go, did it, did you feel like you managed to just hold your pace the whole way through? Was there any times where you got cold or sore or fatigue at all? Yeah. How did it feel for you? Well, it was a good race as in the first, as with lots of these races,

as doing the training that I do, it’s often because I trained for the 10K. Normally it’s often around that, you know, that 12 to 14K mark where the hammer sort of hits. And this time around, that’s really what I was focusing on to be able to push through. So when I did get cold, because it was cold around the middle of the race and it was, and when I did get really tired, so around, you know, 16, 17K this year, I was able to keep that tempo up. So I just really focused on my tempo and focused on my stroke and keep ticking because of the waves and because of the swell. It was not worth it to focus on pulling my stroke more and being a more efficient stroke, but the best way forward to get a faster time was to just get my tempo up. And that was just, you know, race knowledge and just knowing the conditions and racing to the conditions really. Do you know roughly what stroke rate you tended to sit around for a microdo

or is it just go by feel? It’s just a feel, but really just a comfy, or if I was in the pool, it would probably translate to, you know, 109s, just ticking over. It’s all dependent on how much kicking you do, how much stroke you do, but no, I wouldn’t be able to do exact number. Yep, yeah, just going by feel. And what about your feeding? What did that look like for the race? My feeding was pretty good, actually. I had Dad on the boat feeding me. So it was every 20 minutes I had to feed. After, you know, after the start, I got past the lure now that 1500 meters, I was feeding every 20 minutes after that. And, you know, just whatever personal preference was. My preference is, you know, a bit of electrolyte drink and a gel, and then every now and then one of the caffeine tablets every few hours just to keep everything ticking. But yeah, it’s all personal preference, really. And some people like to feed every 30, some people like to feed every 10 or 15.

But for me, 20 is a good number. And yeah, it really worked. It was all smooth sailing for my feeds in the race. And what about when you first got back in the pool six weeks ago? What was that roto pace like for you? Where were you sitting? Oh, time-wise, I would have been at 120s. But, you know, it’s more about the feel of it. You know, in the tempo, I wasn’t pulling any water because I had weak shoulders and my kick wasn’t there and my body positions very low in the water. And then over the six weeks, you know, constantly thinking about that tempo, thinking about that body position, stroke technique. So they sat up higher in the water and went faster as a result. And so you said you did your race last year as well. I did. What was different for you this year? Aside from obviously the leading. Leading. Well, the conditions are obviously much different. Last year I was fitter, but I wasn’t as prepared for the race.

Last year I swam in Nationals in late January. So I had three weeks between Nationals, which was the 10K. And it’s a 20K weekend because of the 5K race and then the real life. So 20K weekend was three weeks before that. And I didn’t quite have that preparation going. And then this year, because I didn’t race Nationals due to my injury, I was solely focused on Roto. So I was able to perfectly build all that through. And that helped a lot. And you feel like that was the main difference for you? Yeah, it was. And also this is that last year was my first 20K. And then this year was my second. And having that experience of knowing what it’s like at 14K and knowing in my body and what it feels like to know how much percentage of how much fuel in the tank you’ve got left. So you know when to push because last year I died a lot harder at 15K and it was a real struggle at the last 5K. Whereas this race, I put on a little bit of a build in the last 5K

and I was able to know when to go and how hard to go for a sustained effort. Because when you die in open water, when you’re hitting the wall, it’s just like any distance event. It’s a massive, massive hit. And so the longer you can delay hitting that wall and you can sit at a nice tempo, you’re going to go from 110s to 111s instead of hitting the wall and going 110s to 120s. And that’s a lot bigger. That’s a lot bigger difference. And that’s exactly what happened to me this year. It was the first 20K swim I’ve done. And it was yeah, about 12, 13Ks in it just, I hit that wall big time. And yeah, it dropped off from low 120s to, at worst it was like it was 140s. It blew out massively. And I just didn’t know what it was going to feel like. I think I probably went out that little bit hard at the start and just didn’t know how much it was going to sting those last couple of Ks. And that’s the thing with doing anything like this

where it’s a real endurance event. A lot of it just comes down to getting the experience and knowing how it will feel and how you need to pace it and what tempo you need to sit at. And I mean, do you think you’ll do this next year? Is that the plan? I’m not sure. Well, this year, I didn’t get any, I didn’t get any sponsorships and stuff for it. So it cost me a bit of money to go over and do it. So I’m not sure. It depends on how I’m feeling. It depends on the race schedule for next year, like where the Swimming Australia put Nationals at. And it depends on the other races around the world. The World Cups change date every year. So we’ll see what we go. But I’m hoping to do it again. I am hoping, but I might be in the form of a duo or a team or… It all depends on the dates and what the schedule is like really next year. We don’t really know until much later in the year. So we’ll figure it out then. Yeah. And they had a bit of prize money up for grabs this year.

I don’t know what it’s been like in the past years, but what was it, seven grand for first? Yeah, it was seven for seven and a half actually. And the year before that was 5k, and the year before that was less. So it was going up every year. So obviously that was a major factor to doing it. Yeah, that’s good. Because I mean, it’s not a cheap race to do. You’ve got the boat which can cost and flights as well. You’re sort of looking at minimum 1,500, 2 grand to actually do the race itself when you factor in accommodation and that sort of stuff as well. So it’s good that they’ve put some prize money up. And I think it seemed like there was quite a few good swimmers there this year. Maybe with the prize money, it attracted a few more good swimmers. Yeah, I think so. I think there was a few people umming and ironing about it and then because of the extra prize money. Well, myself, I was umming and ironing about it six weeks ago

and then I figured that if I came in the top three I’d at least break even. So then I thought that I was a good chance at that. Did you know you were out in front during the race or did you not have strict instructions to say don’t tell me where I am? No, I’m quite the opposite. I quite like to know where everybody is. I was yelling at my crew to tell me where everybody is. But no, at the start I really didn’t because it’s such an individual race and you’re off with your own paddler and you’re off with your own. But I just wanted to take it out hard and then make sure I could keep that tempo up throughout the rest of the race. So no, I took it. I was leading from the start really. I just sort of took it out and did my own thing and made sure that no one else could draft off me or know where I was because I knew that with my preparation if it was going to come down to the last 100 meters, the last 200 meters, then I might not have been in the best position

to take it out. So I knew that my best strategy and my best hope was to take it out to grow 15Ks and make sure I had a good berth on everybody else and then just hang on to the end really. Yeah, nice. And just going back to your training, what I mean those the sessions you said most of them were essentially just a warm-up then swimming at Rotnest pace or Rotnest Field. Sure. And then just swim down. Was it just essentially getting the distance done at that pace and you just broke it up in whatever intervals that you felt like for that day, whatever distances, whatever sets. Yeah, was it all? Yeah, absolutely. Well, it depends. If you’re doing, if you’d say a long, super long distance that you’re just going for aerobic capacity then I’d do 5,000s or 6,800s at Rotnest pace. It’s like what I’d be thinking in my head and I’d just do it on a cycle, whichever one coach and I ground at the day and I might chuck in a cool boy or something

to mix things up because 5,000s can get a little bit boring. Yeah, but it all depends on the day and if I was doing a threshold set I’d go slower than Rotnest pace and Rotnest pace and faster than Rotnest pace and just constantly with everything was in relation to how hard can I go for 20K and can I hold this for 20K was the thought process throughout all of it and if I couldn’t I’d recognise that and think that I’m going faster than what I’d normally hold maybe this isn’t the start maybe this is if I need to break away from a pack scenario but everything was just in relation to how I was feeling and what I thought that my insurance was for and what it could be for the race day. And what was your longest session in the lead up? I did a few 10Ks so I did three 10Ks in the lead up so I did one a week out and then a week and a half out and then I did one two and a half weeks out and those ones were mainly because of my injury

mainly a little self-check to see where I was at and make sure that I could do the distance if it’s nothing quite compared to actually doing the distance and it’s hard and it’s very boring sometimes but sometimes you just have to go the extra Ks

so it’s a bit of a comfort thing too isn’t it just knowing like just getting through those longer sessions Absolutely well once you get going on 20K race once you get to half way like I’ve done one full session and I’ve done plenty of these so I can do another one no worries Yeah exactly right and so what’s next for you once you get your shoulders right are you aiming for open water nationals next season is that the plan? Yeah well yeah I will be I will be off to I think I’m doing the Maui Channel swim and the Waikiki Raffota in Hawaii later this year and then after that I need to look at the World Cup time table and see if I can go to one of the World Cups later in the year for a bit of race experience and then yeah next year next year nationals will be key Fantastic well thanks so much for sharing all of that on the podcast you know we had a lot of people listen to well I did sort of two honest episodes in the lead up to it

and a lot of people who actually did the race who listened to those ones and I think you know just seeing what the winner and the record holder had seen what you did in the lead up to it even though it was probably a bit different than normal it’s just really great to get an insight into to that and see what sort of sessions you’re doing what your feeding plan is and even though it’s individual it’s good to get a bit of a mix of an understanding of what different people do because it’s all about finding what works for you Absolutely and this race was very special this lead up was very special for me because I’ve never done a lead up for a 20k swim solely for a 20k swim I’ve only ever done the 10k and trusted my fitness so it was a very individual process for me as well and I’ve learned a lot through this process and obviously having swam at once I knew a lot more for the second time round and then I think if I was to do it again

I’d know even more about myself and how to do the race properly so that’s great for me too What was the feeling like for you once you hit the sand and you knew you’d gone under 4 hours and you knew that you’d won it like I mean obviously it’s going through any sort of injury especially when you’re out for 3 months it just knocks you around I think mentally as well it’s a very challenging thing to go through and to stick to your physio and your rehab and then to only have 6 weeks built up What was that like for you when you knew that you’d come home with the goods? Well it’s just relief more than anything if I’m honest I was just so happy that I’d done it and all of the 6 weeks was all worth it you know and because I knew the guys who I was racing against so just coming across the finish line knowing that I’d backed myself 6 weeks ago to do it and then I backed myself again on the race day and then I had the mental toughness

to stick it out for all 4 hours just under and kept that intensity up the entire time mentally so it was just massive weight off my shoulders you know that I’d done it and I’d backed myself and then essentially back in the sport after 3 months out. Yeah that’s fantastic well congratulations again it’s a great great story to be able to do that so best of luck for next season and those World Cups and everything and I really appreciate you showing all that in the podcast Thanks no worries thanks for having me So first of all congratulations on your win at Right Nest that was an amazing swim and you said it was the first time that you’ve done the race solo Yeah that’s right it was a really good experience I’ve done it in teams and duos maybe 6 or more times so first time I’ve been able to do it solo and yeah I think we’ve picked a pretty good year to do it Yeah I was talking to Solomon about this and it was fast conditions but not easy conditions

just because of the chop it got quite windy especially towards the middle of it how did you find the race overall how did it go compared to what you planned It’s a funny question because it actually went nothing like how I had planned so the girls that came second and third I trained with them on a regular basis and they’re good national and state level swimmers but I’m generally probably in a 5k at least 5 or so minutes in front of them so I thought in this channel swim I’d probably have a lead on them from quite early on in the race just knowing how our race history was and our training history as well and as it turns out they were in front of me by about 100 meters up until the 15k mark and I didn’t actually manage to take them until the 18k mark so yeah it’s a real credit to the girls they put up a really strong race and look the right next to me is something so different to just a 10k marathon swim which is what I usually race in the

Olympic distance or swim from point to point in the lake there’s a lot of factors that go into the race and the channel was so wide actually that you can take so many different lines to get to the same point and ultimately I think the line I took would have been good in any given year if the easterly wasn’t blowing so strong on the day so we took quite a southern line which mainly counters a current which comes into the channel which goes south to north usually around the 15k onwards mark and I think what happened was as it turned out we took perhaps a line that was a bit too south one of the girls went straight down the middle another girl veered north and carried on south and eventually when we all came together at the pointy end of the race we could see where each other were and where we were ranking against each other and yeah my crew were like look I thought you were fierce but your fourth girl 100 meters behind

the next one and they actually there was a guy Sumer in there called Nikola so they thought that was a female Sumer but nonetheless I was still third Sumer up until the 18k mark and when I finally got sight of them around the 15k mark and I could see their boats I just went on the attack basically and changed my race plan completely I also think I went a little bit too slow at the start a lot of people were saying to me it’s a really really hard race make sure you don’t burn too much energy at the start just do nothing for the first 10k and just given the way I usually train and race if I go too slow I tend to sometimes just go too slow and I guess clock off mentally and I was relaxed and I was comfortable but perhaps I just didn’t have that consistent sustainable pace at the start which would have gotten me a bit more of a lead on the girls instead I just stayed perhaps the same pace or slower and combined with the not

the best route that we took I ended up quite far behind the girls in the end. Well you came away with the wind and the record which is a great result and it’s such a there’s so many different variables that race isn’t it and it’s hard to know exactly where you are because it’s such a wide field and you can’t well especially if you’re in the water I mean you’re relying on your crew to kind of have a general idea of where the other swimmers are and the other boats are but it’s really just comes once it comes down to the pointy and then you’ve got an idea of where you are but it’s you’re kind of in no man’s land for a while there aren’t you? Yeah absolutely I think particularly until I saw the girls boats and because the swell was actually quite big in the middle of the race it’s really hard to sight so I was completely reliant on my crew he did a really good job they had the app which monitored the other boats so they could roughly see where they

were but I think it wasn’t quite clear just how far in front they were until we started spotting them and we all came together in the channel but you’re 100% reliant on your crew I mean that was my race plan anyway was that my skipper would set the course my paddler would follow my skipper and I would follow my paddler and that’s it and they were feeding me information such as pace, stats so where I sat in the field distance coverage how far to go to the next boy just little things like that which actually keep you motivated during the race and if it wasn’t for my crew I wouldn’t have been able to know any of my positions in the race or my feeds or anything like that so you’re really reliant on your crew on the day and what about feeding how do you approach that for the 20k’s what did that look like? So my feed strategy is probably a little different to what others might do so I usually race the 10k Olympic distance marathon

and I’ve done that for quite a few years now so in those races I will only get an opportunity to feed once in a every lap and the courses can change so they can change from a 1k lap to sometimes even a point to point but more often they’re a lap their courses so in this instance you’ve got the opportunity to feed as much as you want because it’s a point to point and you’ve got support crew along the way the whole way so I decided I’d feed once every 20 minutes and in those feeds I had a diluted amount of gels and electrolytes and I just kept that feed the whole way through every 20 minutes it was quite simple the reason for that was I wanted to maintain a regular intake of glucose and carbohydrates into my body electrolytes being the key factor given it was quite warm and salt water so every feed had salt water, every feed had electrolytes and towards the 15k mark I loaded a couple of my feeds with caffeine as well just to get that edge

towards the end where I might be fatiguing Solomon was the same he said up until, I don’t think he fed up until the loon so 1500 into it but then every 20 minutes as well is what he did so did you mix your gels and electrolytes with a bit of water and then just down that every 20 minutes yeah that’s right so quite like so I didn’t feed until 30 minutes into the race so that probably brought me up to about close to 2.5k in because I figured if you have a good breakfast and you’re well hydrated before you don’t really need to feed in that first half an hour it’ll all depend on who the person is so what I did was I had about half a shot so a gel shot in each feed diluted with a little bit of water and electrolytes so interesting thing I think most people don’t consider is that it’s not actually the volume of water or liquid that you need in a feed that’ll keep you going but it’s the electrolytes so people often I’ve heard feeds of

every 15 minutes with 600 mls of Gatorade I mean that’s a lot of volume I know how you keep that down that’s like the Gatorade Challenge or the Powerade Challenge it’s almost like that well it’s not pleasant

it’s not the amount of liquid that you need it’s the quantity of the electrolytes in that liquid volume so I only take the bottles which are about 375 mls just supermarket water bottles the smaller ones and I only fill them maybe half up with the volume of liquid that I consume each 15 minutes each 20 minutes and also you need to be able to relieve yourself in the water if you need to if you’re going to be drinking that much and some people just can’t do it so it’s a factor that I think people often disregard they think I need to be really hydrated but it’s not actually the water volume it’s the quality and the quantity of electrolytes in that volume yeah that’s a good insight and I mean what would you do for a 10K how would that change for a 10K race where you might feed once, twice maybe three times yeah so in a 10K my feed strategy is generally to feed every well probably two or three times in a race it depends on where the feed pontoon is

in a race and the 10K is a lot different because there’s a lot more strategy involved in terms of pack swimming so we’ll swim in a pack and I base my feeds where I think it’ll be comfortable to take a feed having regard to how far into the race I am how much I need that energy so for example I wouldn’t take a feed at the 8K mark when there’s just 2K of a race to go because that’s likely when the spring is coming on in a race and it’s often too congested in the pack to break away to get a feed or a lot of the girls that I race with won’t feed from the feed pontoon and they’ll bypass it all together so if you’re in that pack at 8K generally my priority would be to stay with that pack and going to the side for a feed doesn’t really work strategically with a solid race plan like that and what about your training leading up to it were you able to train specifically for this race or did you just stick with your normal 10K training

because obviously that’s the main focus so were you able to change your sessions in the lead up to it yeah so it’s been an interesting ride for me I had my last international race late last year at the south east asian games and I took 2 months off swimming I guess I was toying with the idea of retiring if you could say that so I took a couple of months off and just did other training did other things and then I kind of decided I’d give rottenness ago since I’d never really gotten around to doing that while I was racing internationally so I got back in the water for 8 weeks and during the 8 week period I trained with my club at Perth City swim club and my coach Matt McGee who’s been my long time coach now for over 10 years and even though I wasn’t rottenness isn’t on the international racing calendar we still had a goal and we phased back in so it took me about 8 weeks to get to full training capacity where I was able to hold the cycles

and times I was pretty close to holding while I was at the weekend training and I actually went away then for 4 weeks to northern Norway and the UK because my partners from the UK and it was a trip we planned for quite some time so I was never going to let a swim get in the way of that given I haven’t really had a holiday for probably quite a few years now so yeah we ended up going away over Christmas which ultimately took me away from the pool for 4 weeks and I got quite sick over that time just before I left with just a bad flu but then I was ill the entire time I was away so even though I might have been able to access a pool irregularly when I was away I couldn’t because I was so sick so I got back and had 6 weeks to get ready for rottenness with a bit of a interrupted and shaky preparation to say the least yeah so what I did was jumped in with my guys who in our squad their main distance is the 10k so they’re still training for that

but the training I’ve done over the last 10 or so years was enough to get me through the race so my situation was probably a bit peculiar to other rottenness swimmers I did the same training as the 10k guys but their sessions are 7, 8 9k onwards and their main sets are 4 or 5k so it’s hard training but it’s what I needed to sharpen up given I’d had a few weeks and months off throughout the last 6 months yeah that’s really interesting how UN Solomon had very similar lead-ins by the sounds not that I’d recommend that you’d recommend copying that for anyone to intentionally take some time off it’s just injury and sickness and all that sort of stuff but if you look back it’s 10 years of non-stop training pretty much where that keeps you in good stead yeah absolutely I was obviously relying very heavily on all the kilometers I’d done in training over the last 10 years and so to me the distance was never an issue it was always going to be

strategy and probably mindset so the couple of weeks leading up and on the advice of previous Rotness champions who I used to train with all who I’m friends with and I’d spoken to I’d done some really long swims in my preparation so I got in the ocean and did 2 3 hour swims 2 weeks out of Rotness I did 1 and 1, 3 weeks out and I kind of built up to those swims on the weekend I’d start with just a 1 hour straight swim then I went to 1.5, 2 hours, 2.5, 3 hours in consecutive weekends out from Rotness and yeah the last 2 I did were 3 hour swims where I got to about 13k which was just to prepare me mentally for what was to come because I knew I had the kilometres under my belt it was just more about the mental mindset going in so those longer swims you did at a pretty reasonable pace by the sounds of it like you weren’t just going completely aerobic there it was probably the Rotness pace for you was it yeah so the goal for me was to focus on the

first I guess 15k pace because I knew I needed to push that last 5k no matter what the race situation was and as it turned out I needed to push it more than I thought I would so my theory was all the training I’m doing the pool with the elite guys was training me for that last 5k and I already had the first 15k under my belt but it was about keeping that pace sustainable so I kind of averaged between probably about 120 pace maybe at the slower ones up to 125 pace in those longer swims but mostly holding about 120 and then I pushed the last half an hour down to about 115 pace yeah nice and did you do those solo or did you have someone there to train with I had a few drop-ins I had one of my mates Paul Laver who won the swim a couple years ago dropped in for the last 45 minutes of one of the three and a half of the three hour swims I did and he really helped me get down to that 115 pace but the second one was just a solo swim and

you know I probably could have dealt well I probably could have had someone swim with me it would have been a bit more fun and I actually had planned to go with a couple of friends but they all pulled out in the last minute for a variety of reasons so I ended up doing it myself but in hindsight you swim to rightness by yourself so why wouldn’t you train by yourself at some point too yeah it’s good getting to those bigger sessions by yourself I think mentally it’s a big tick of the box and I think you just have that the strength and the I guess the confidence going into a rightness if you’ve done some long individual training sessions you should have known in the back of your mind you’ll be fine and it’s like especially because it’s so easy to have the option to get out when you’re not there with someone when you do knock out a good session like I did a few a couple of 13 case sessions a few 10 case sessions solo and they’re a bit of a grind to get through

but afterwards you feel at least me I felt so just felt good about myself and you know you kind of get into a bit of flow as well when you do it like it just go all through you know the last couple case might go a bit slowly but it is quite a meditative state that you can get into as well yeah it’s definitely about the confidence building I mean like I said I knew I could make the distance but I not swam further than 15k before continuously in that environment so for me it was just about getting as close as I could to that 15k 20k mark and look who I had the time 20k swim but given my preparation and history of injuries I didn’t want to throw my body into the 5 pits of shoulder surgery or something before just before rottenness so I thought I’d be a bit cautious and just cap it at 3 hours and do you think you’d do it again after this year is that something that you’re eyeing off where you’re just waiting to see what the next 12 months holds for you

yeah look I I would like to do it again I think just given this year we had great conditions and everyone said it’s the hardest thing you ever do and it is a very challenging swim but I guess I finished that race and I almost thought I feel like I could have done better not to say that I wasn’t giving it everything I had but just with strategy in hindsight knowing with these conditions I think I know for next time I would do what I said it all comes down to experience when you’re doing open water swimming and for me to break the record and win in my first solo attempt it just makes me wonder what I could do on further attempts with that experience in the back of my mind already so I’d be interested to do it again but at this stage I’m still working out what I’m doing with my 10k open water swimming career so I think I’ll work that out first and then I’ll come back to right next it’s always going to be there for me and I really enjoy the event

that’s fantastic such a great swim it’s kind of good having a few things there where you go I could have done this better if the race goes perfectly to the plan it doesn’t keep you as hungry as it would if there’s a few things you’d like to do differently that’s fantastic congratulations and I appreciate you sharing your experience and your training and giving up to it on the podcast because I know there’s a lot of people who did right this year or who have done it or who are looking to do it who listen to the podcast and it’s good to see what yourself and Solomon have done in the lead up to it because I think it gives it gives people a few ideas as to what they can do and obviously they’re probably coming from very different backgrounds when it comes to competitive swimming but it’s good to see what a range of different swimmers are doing to you so thank you very much for being on the podcast you’re welcome thanks for having me

welcome to the effort to swim podcast this episode is the Rotnest swim recap so I’ve got Lysandra back on and we’ve recorded two podcasts leading up to Rotnest where we spoke about Lysandra spoke about some of the things that she does in the lead up to Rotnest and then we had a recap about how we’d been training some of the things that we’d been doing how to train for a 10km plus swim and this episode is just a recap on how we went at the race and towards the end of the episode I’ve also got Solomon Wright who won the male male section and broke the record for the event which was under 4 hours which was a red hot time and also Heidi Garn who won the females for that event so towards the end of this podcast we’re going to talk about what they did in the lead up to it what sort of training they’ve been doing what sort of difficult what sort of things were going through their head and just to dive deep on their experience

and see what those really elite guys did so Lysandra welcome back to the podcast should become a bit of a regular guest now and get recognised in lines and out and about just a red hot superstar these days that was funny, thanks for having me Brenton so it was a pleasure well and shout out to Sven as well from the swim who sort of recognised I guess our voices which is really cool it’s the thing I love about the swimming community especially the long distance swimming community everyone’s so friendly there’s no egos there it’s just just a good thing to be a part of and I really found that at Rotnest I swam there on the Friday morning before the race and there was probably one or 200 people out there just getting some last minute a last minute feel for the water and just to loosen up and everyone there was so nice and friendly and met some people face to face who I guess known through Facebook and through other people and it was just really good fun

in the lead up to it and then the swim itself yeah it was really good atmosphere for me that was the first when somebody probably because I have an accent as well just turn around and say hey I think I heard the podcast yeah that was fun yeah I think the atmosphere of the race I I don’t think I’ve seen that anywhere else you know there’s really good camaraderie and I don’t know you can people just talking to each other are you solo are you in a duo or in a team where do you come from what have you done the race before I yeah it was just really good atmosphere and everybody was just really interested in what you had to say yeah and it’s the thing about rotteness too is it’s I mean I didn’t know that much about it before this year like obviously knew you done it and you some people who had done it but there’s only so much you can fully grasp and understand from just seeing pictures and hearing other people talk about it but it’s not until you’re there until you’re

part of it until you’re training for it where you really get excited about it and you get the full sense of what that environment and that vibe is like when you’re there and one thing we were talking about I think on one of the other podcast is it’s like it’s a real challenge 20k is not a short distance but it’s it’s attainable it’s not like doing the English channel which is sort of close to double that like that’s a massive swim but rottenest is far enough where it’s you know you’re going to have to push to get through it but it’s not so far where it keeps most people away it’s that good distance in between yeah yeah and then you know if you plan your training right if you allocate you know a few months prior to the race and if you stick to your training and it’s attainable for yeah I think for most people that if you if you plan for six months prior to the race you know and you do and you follow your training plan I

I think yeah a lot of people should be able to do it yeah and I mean you’ve got the teams and the duos and stuff as well so that’s that also adds to the atmosphere and so the conditions on the day if we we start with that so it was well the records are broken by male and female and there was probably the quickest fields that I’ve seen in terms of fields on it seems like there was a lot of good elites and I think there’s a bit of prize money up for grabs as well which which would have appealed to them too but it was it was a fast day so we had a strong tailwind but it made it fast but quite choppy and challenging how did you find find that I found the same I mean this was

the fourth time I did it and it’s always been different and I think I thought it was a faster but not necessarily faster because it was really really choppy and it was actually pushing to the side you know to the north as well so I don’t I don’t think it was that necessarily faster I thought I thought it was challenging I thought it was really really challenging to having the ways breaking behind me or on top of me sometimes yeah you kind of get you know I got swamped by a few waves like and there was a few points where it feels you can almost body surf the waves you get these little little rolls that almost come through and you get get this bit of a push but then at other times it’s like you’ve just got a wave that comes over the top and you’re completely submerged and you’ve got to get your arms back out and get going again and it was it was challenging because sometimes it felt really good and you’re really riding high and getting pushed

along but at other times it was just it’s just relentless yeah I think and some of the waves you know when it almost felt like swimming uphill when you’re swimming on the top of the waves and then you had the massive drop so I think my the biggest issue for me on this race was finding more rhythm because of the way the waves were coming you know so once I found my rhythm I was always breaking and I had to change sometimes my breathing patterns as well so it was it was not my normal you know breathing every three and just keep going it was sort of swim and stop swim and get you know tumble almost by the way swim a bit more get a mouthful and then you know body surf so it was it was it was a challenging swim you know I I think about from I know 12-13 k’s onwards I was I think it was the direction of the waves and the started to pick up a bit I went to more comfortable breathing on my left so I was probably 60% on my left but

because of the waves and the direction of it I went to breathe to my left most times and I’d kind of get this wave come over the top so I wouldn’t get the breath so I didn’t have to turn to the right and get the breath on the next stroke there and it was like that for about two k’s where I just I’d go to breathe on the left but wouldn’t really get it so it’s just alright breathe have to breathe to the right on that one and before it I was breathing every three and that was fine I had a good rhythm but yeah after that it was just it was a real challenge to do that and that’s why you know you’ve got to be able to breathe to both sides and be able to do it comfortably and at a good speed like you just you cannot get away with it on a swim like that on a swim like that it wouldn’t so let’s talk about the results so you swam well just over five hours it’s always good to stay hungry and I think that’s why you went just above five hours just to keep you coming back

just over five hours and you got tenth female was that yeah I was very happy just over five hours it was five hours 30 seconds and tenth female and I think which is funny because this was by far my fastest time but in terms of placing you know before I think I was seventh and fourth but it was a tough field this year and I agree with you there were a lot of elite swimmers nonetheless you know I much rather go my five hours you know and come tenth because I was so stoked with my time this time yeah and it’s not I’m probably just saying this in after so I went 507 I think it was and I was aiming for 430 to 440 that’s where I thought if everything went to plan that’s where I could be and I was on track up until about 12 13 K’s and then I just I just blew up my sort of fought my forearm started to cramp and seize up and I lost that that rhythm and started to get a bit cold so I basically went from a 122 pace out to mid 140’s like it was a massive drop off

and I just couldn’t I think the last K or two I might have picked it up to like one mid 130’s I reckon I want to just slightly picked it up but I just went through a massive hole there at the end and kind of I felt like I put it all on the line and set myself up well but then just yeah dropped off and I think that’s you know a bit of a lack of experience and maybe going a bit too hard early on I just yeah there’s a few things I’ll change next time we’ll sort of talk about that but you know at the end of the day it’s you know at least for I think most people it’s just about getting to the end and completing the challenge because it’s like yeah at the end of the swim like I was just we talked about it earlier where I was out of it and so cold and just so exhausted but you know you just go well that was such a great experience and at the same time yeah and when you first came on the podcast and you talked about the rottenness swim before I’d entered

that was one of the things that you said is like you’ll get sore you’ll like yeah there’s mental battles going on that you need to get through and that’s really what drew me in and I had to remind myself for that 15K is in when I’m going what am I doing here yeah it was just such a tough mental battle and I likened it to how it felt for the last hour or two of the run at the end of the Iron Man it’s just the same sort of feeling and yeah and mental games that you play yeah I mean I think it was for me well first of all Brenton I think the lack of experience you never know what 20K feels like until you do it and that’s actually really admirable that you know you push yourself you know they’re hard to 12K’s I think just my style swimming even when I swim you know my favorite vendor 200 fly I’m a conservative swimmer you know I hold back and then I just try to push it harder but you know you never know what it feels like until you do it

and then that’s part of the fun is overcoming those bears is being oh my god I blew out you know and then you see the island and then it slowly keeps getting bigger and bigger and I think that’s one of the things at the end you know you see the island and it keeps getting bigger so that you have the extra push you know to get you through the finish line as well yeah that’s it like I had to keep telling myself about 15K’s into it so the last 5K felt like it took longer than the first 15K’s and it just that island didn’t get any closer even once I put my feet down but it’s the thing I had to keep telling myself was that you know this is this is actually the best part of the race this is you know this is what it’s all about is getting through these tough moments like this and I had to tell myself that there’s people in wheelchairs there’s people who can’t swim there’s people who can’t sort of have this opportunity so you’ve got to count yourself

lucky to be able to do this and that’s what I had to remind myself of when all I wanted was to get out and have a stake that the skipper had talked up from the very beginning like it was just when you’re cold and you know you’ve got another hour and a half in the water it’s it’s a tough talk it’s mentally tough it is mentally tough and that’s the thing you just deal with it and sometimes I don’t know if you’re a kayaker your peddler was your friend he pushed you because I know my peddler my kayaker Renata she tells me to toughen up princes which is what I need to hear sometimes I like hearing that just bring your teeth and toughen up princes now go

it’s good isn’t it you don’t want sympathy through a race you want someone just to tell you to suck it up and get on with it and for the right person I think for anyone who enters a 20k swim that’s what they want to hear ultimately true and one thing that I’d probably I think I’d probably change for next time I saw some footage of my swimming throughout the race one thing that gave way first was my heart rate was really low the whole time so robically I was fine and that’s often the case in most endurance events but the thing that gave way first was my forearms and hands they just really cramped up and I think for me my normal open water stroke is really high rating sort of up around the 80s or so it was probably low 70s I think for rottenness at the start but one thing I’d do more of or switch to would probably just be a slightly longer stroke a little bit more rotation and sort of glide and reach just a little bit more to get through that 20k’s a little bit easier

so I’ve kind of got I can switch between those two strokes they’re often a similar pace but I can go that little bit quicker with the faster rating and the slightly less rotation but I think to last better I’d probably want to get a little bit more rotation happening because that would take the pressure off my forearms and hopefully use less effort that way

I think after doing it four times I think I got the rotation right this time right? That’s what I told myself going into it whenever you do anything for the first time you’re not going to nail it there’s always going to be something or multiple things that you can learn from it and you know that’s always the case and there’s no getting around it it just comes from experience and so I didn’t want to think about that too much going into it you know you want to have the confidence that you can do it and stick to plan but at the end of the day you’re not going to have everything go perfectly the first time Absolutely not I think I have the same strategy I try to keep my strokes longer for this kind of race for my 10Ks and 20Ks and I definitely have more of a glide and I work on my catch while I’m gliding I just set up for the catch and keep my elbows high I think my focus for this race was keeping my elbows high not letting my body rotate too much

because sometimes I kick sideways if I rotate too much so I was and actually one of the guys on the boat that was his homework if he saw me doing that he would have to tell me you know swim don’t roll too much stop having such a huge body roll That was one of the tough things I was thinking about if I switch my stroke to be a little bit longer it can be tough in those conditions when it’s so choppy it really suits a smooth if it sees a smooth it suits that really well but it can be tougher to do in those choppy conditions that just comes from from experience and getting out there in open water the last open water swim that we did it was even worse than what it was which was good practice and you said that was one of the things that you thought about out there when you were racing absolutely the last swim we were planning to be in the water for at least three hours but we didn’t last we lasted two hours but because it was a very cold

that day as well it was choppy we still got in and we swam for as long as we could and during the race I was so glad I mean the training session the last open water session was choppy and I was just thinking I’m so glad we trained in those choppy conditions I’m prepared for this and throughout the race I actually kept telling myself just being an optimist saying oh you know it’s gonna the chop is gonna get better the wind is gonna change it didn’t I was just hopeful they kept me going as well it’s gonna change any minute yeah I was of a similar mindset where I was trying to be as positive about it as I could until I sort of blew up I was thinking to myself and trying to convince myself a little bit too that it was better conditions than it was but I was thinking well this is going surfing for five hours how lucky am I to surf for five hours and my stroke was feeling really good and everything was on point there I actually was really enjoying how it felt

especially we had pretty smooth seas at the start it just felt so so good all that training had paid off and been working on my stroke a lot as well it actually was really enjoyable obviously until the pain kicks in but yeah it’s nice to be able to enjoy at least some of it there we were talking I think the week before the race that you’d worked a lot on your on your catch and I remember we did some filming I did some filming with you probably three years ago for our effortless freestyle DVD and one of the things that comparing how you’re swimming then to how you’re swimming now was you’ve improved your catch a lot so do you want to just talk about what you were working on there yeah so I’ve been working on keeping my elbow high and close to the surface when I catch and actually also taking my time to set up the catch and try not to rush into the stroke and pulling the water my hand enters the water so I let it enter the water

and then I catch I take my time catching because I know if my elbow is high and close to the surface you know it would be a more efficient stroke so it’s and I’ve been doing some drills as well that helps and in the beginning I couldn’t even do these drills to I didn’t have the coordination and to work on the catch and with time you know I started started to master those drills but it’s I really have to work on it I still cannot switch off you know I still constantly reminding myself because when I get tired I know my elbows drop I know straight away when I just have this really deep catch under the water so that’s it’s been a long process you know it’s not something and at first it feels terrible but then you just stick with it and you work with it and then it starts to become more natural yeah it takes I found it took me two or three months to really have it come together I was doing a very similar thing to you actually I was

my elbows were just dropping a bit especially when I was going fast and I was also bending my wrist to start my right hand so I was like fingertips point down I bend my wrist and so I just wouldn’t have my forearm working together to pull back on the water and that’s one thing that took me forever to change just the wrist I did the same thing I did the same mistake I bend my wrist too much and there’s only one way to correct this you know you have to see film yourself or record see how you know your technique under the water there’s no other way yeah exactly right you can guess all you want but the feedback that I get every single clinic is oh that’s not how I thought I looked in the water yeah it doesn’t matter who you are you will look very different than what you are than what you’re expecting and especially to get that underwater footage from the side and from the front you get such a clear idea of what you need to change

to get better and then obviously that it takes time to bridge that gap from what you’re doing to where you want to be and that’s the real challenge but you’re going to be spending that time in the water anyway so why not focus on it why not practice it and yeah and once you have that visual image I don’t know for me it helps you know because I can see even in the beginning I had to look you know I was looking at my catch to see what am I doing and then after that I just put my head down I didn’t want to look at it anymore but to have the visual I think is essential to improve the technique yeah and there’s no reason why you can’t GoPro you can get a second hand GoPro for 150 bucks off eBay just get that visual or run the clinics it’s so easy to do that I think even the new iPhones yeah new iPhones yeah I can put it under the water don’t blame me if it leaks like yeah I think that yeah it’s so easy to do that now and we took some quick

footage the week before right now I think it was and just had a look at your stroke and I still I want to do that comparison video because I’ve got that footage from three years ago and your current footage so I will I’ll put together a comparison video and I’ll put it up on there I’ll be curious yeah I remember doing it but I know I’ve been working on it so I’ll be curious to see the difference yeah and I one thing I did as well so I did this sort of filming I want to film next week as well I just want to just get some footage and see how a stroke is looking but and do that next week but another thing I did before and after so in August before I’d actually booked in I got a DEXA scan which is like a body composition scan and it just it’s very accurate in measuring your your bone mass your fat mass and your your lean muscle mass essentially and it kind of does that through kind of like an x-ray type thing and so I got that done in August and then

I had that done today as well so what was it probably what was that 6, 7, 8 months or so because I wanted to see that difference in my body composition from a change in training and so what happened was well the results were essentially I in the course of those seven months I lost about half a kilo of fat mass I lost half a kilo in weight through through fat which I was relatively lean going into it like I didn’t have a lot of extra on me so I lost half a kilo and then I actually lost a kilo and a half of lean muscle mass and that’s and the guy was saying to me Andrew is like you know normally well I’d ask about what have you been doing in the course of that time and if it’s someone has changed their diet and and it’s and they’re losing that sort of muscle mass and you might question right maybe you want to look at that diet but because I’d just gone from essentially it was like sprint training a few more weights and that sort of thing

to endurance it’s just a natural thing that comes with with long distance swimming or you know long distance running whatever it might be it’s just you’re going to lose some some muscle mass and there’s no no way around it basically but it’s actually yeah it is you don’t want to be carrying too much muscle either it’s just a natural thing that your body does so I found it interesting a kilo and a half of muscle mass so yeah I’ve had one of those I mean I notice I noticed that I was some muscle mass as well I mean more I don’t go on the scale that often but you know mostly through my jeans yeah the ultimate test hey yeah this is the most high-tech one get your old pair of jeans yeah so um yeah I found that interesting and it’s a real like there’s no lying there’s no hiding from that so it’s I like to be able to see the see the difference so for me like the three things really that I found useful to compare our technique

obviously before and after your pace and your speed like I did a few test sets throughout the course of training and it was nice to see an improvement there with the speed and then just the body composition as well to see what your body does as it goes through it and it’s you know it’s six months of solid work and but when you get to the end of it it’s so nice to have that I guess reward there or you can actually see the difference that it’s made absolutely and now the question what would you have done differently yeah so I think I think my feeding was fine like I don’t feel like I you know bonked with feeding at all it was more just muscle wise so I think for me probably the one thing I’d do a little bit more of is just sustain pace or threshold work over long distances so like a few 10 to 12k sessions where a good majority of that is actually at my threshold pace or you know probably looking to hit around one probably you know low 120s

essentially yeah if not a little bit quicker but yeah probably some bigger sessions at a faster pace because most of the sessions that we did the long distance ones were very very comfortable just all the road because it was just about spending the time in the water which you need to do but but looking back I think yeah one thing I’d like to add is that maybe like one yeah one long sustained pace session every fortnight I think would probably help I think I agree I think I think working more or less working on the pace I want to do on the day of the race as well which I don’t know for me it would be high the 120s but more 27s but you know just stay at that pace for you know your good 13 to 15k’s and unfortunately have to do that in the pool you know to get a better idea of the pace as well so I probably would have done the same well probably will do the same yeah it’s yeah and it’s good to be able to look back at that and kind of analyse

where is there room for improvement there and you know I think what we did for me lasted it was perfect up to 12k like I felt really good I was right on my time and yeah and then it just obviously needed a little bit more of that sustained pace work to get beyond that 12-13k’s I think but yeah it was such a good feeling to be able to hold it for that long and you know we talked a bit about just getting into to flow and you know just kind of feeling like you’re almost separate from your body somewhat and it was just yeah it was really enjoyable and you know you start with the sunset but the sun’s coming up it’s kind of like it’s a beautiful sky the waters calm and it was yeah it’s just I loved it really enjoyed it glad I’m glad right and I’m glad and that’s I mean that’s you have to like we spoke about this before you have to be able to enjoy it you know and I don’t know the color of the water is so beautiful I tried to enjoy those

things as well and I saw some stingrays along the way I don’t know the small things I tried to enjoy and to be honest I felt good and I felt I was on my pace for the first time ever throughout the entire race you know and I really when the people on the boat I actually didn’t know I didn’t want to know where I was so I was only told at the 15k mark and I actually felt 15 that’s good I actually felt that’s good because I still I still had some fuel in the tank and they said if you keep going in this pace you’re gonna go just you know just under or five hours and that I don’t know they kept me going and and so they would actually from the boat they say you know you’re gonna go five hours and I would stop and go what and then they go keep going every time they were just telling you know my peddler that I was on track and then I would stop and then everybody would just yell at me just don’t stop well you’re listening out whether you need to jump out

because of a shark it’s you always want to be attentive and aware of what’s happening exactly what’s actually there actually yelling yeah I saw the 10k big channel 10 boy out there and then I think I saw all the boys as I passed them and I kind of wanted to know where I was I didn’t want to know what pace I was at so like I didn’t record that or have anyone tell me or anything during the race but yeah it was I think once I got to like sort of 14-15k’s I thought I was about a k ahead of where I actually was so I think like I might have seen the 15k boy I thought I was at about 16k in and yeah so it seemed like it never came after that so I think I’d probably be better off just going try to not see the boys and just keep going off the watch you know I fed every sort of 45 or 30 minutes and just keep ticking off those half hour or 45 minute blocks and then you eventually get there yeah that’s a good one that was sort of my mentality this time that’s why I didn’t

want to know and it was I think because I didn’t ask and I think Renata my peddler she thought it was important for me to know that I was at the 15k mark because we weren’t well I wasn’t asking before she said I would ask more often and

this time I was just going for it but she said even my facial expressions you know this time I was a lot more relaxed just by looking at me and the way I was asking for water or gels you know it’s just it depends on if on how you feel on the day as well this was a good swing for me but it took me more goals to feel this good yeah and I’m so glad to see you have such a great swim and have everything go to plan like it was just yeah it’s so good to have now that perfect race and I because I was only just I was seven minutes behind you so I think you were were you like I don’t know if you’re like at the fence or something maybe talking to someone or like not that yeah I basically saw you after the the race and I was like I didn’t even know what time it was or anything like that but I was like holy crap you’re there like right there because you don’t see anyone passing you or like where anyone is and like yeah because I think I was coming third after

the first hour or so and then it must have just been a steady stream of people so they passed me from about 12k onwards and but I had no idea because I might have seen one other boat out there but you just don’t know that it’s so far away just kind of out there on your own essentially yeah most of the race on your own this I mean because it was so rough before I could see at the boat here and there I had an idea where people when the people were but this time I felt really I couldn’t see many people I felt really alone out there

just I don’t know this particular time Brent and so I know you have no idea where you are in the pecs sometimes no yeah not at all well thank you for jumping back on and being such a regular on the podcast it’s good to recap and have a bit of a debrief and I think most importantly is just look at what worked and what to change next time like it’s that’s where that’s where you can really start to to improve and I know you definitely haven’t been there for the last time and I need to decide whether I’ll do it next year or not or the year after I’ll see how this dad bod goes after May how bad it is but yeah I just enjoyed the training so much and I did it too I actually I enjoyed the training and I think I had the best preparation thanks to you this time Brent and for sure there’s no doubt about it yeah and I wouldn’t of I probably would have pulled out I probably would have bonked it about 6k and I think had we not done the training together so thanks for

thanks for yeah being my training partner and yeah it was really enjoyable it was a lot of fun okay well we’ll talk in a few months and I’ll see where you at sounds good thanks thank you thanks for listening to the effortless swimming podcast if you’d like us to help you become a faster more efficient swimmer go to www.effortlesswimming.com