pretty much have to go into a discomfort platter. He labeled it the pit of discomfort. You go into that for a while because it’s just so alien from what you’re used to doing. So if you’re making a change, unless you go into that pit of discomfort, you might not actually be making any sort of change at all because it’s the change that’s the uncomfortableness because you’re basically setting whole new neural pathways. You’re accessing new muscles and different timing sequences than you’ve ever used before. Welcome to the Effortless Swimming Podcast to show that help swimmers and triathletes love the water, become a better swimmer and live a better life. Here’s your host, Brenton Ford. Welcome to the Effortless Swimming Podcast. My guest today is Gary Haring, who’s a former Olympic swimmer and Olympic coach from New Zealand. Gary, welcome to the podcast. Thanks, Brenton. Nice to be here. We just got back, what was it,

about a month ago from Thailand, we had our Hau’i camps over there. And that was the first Hau’i camp that you’d attended. You previously come to the Hawaii camps, but it was the first Hau’i camps. And what was your experience over there coaching some of the athletes that we had over there at Hau’i? I think that the standout experience was how amazing the facilities were there. It was such an incredible environment for the athletes to come along and spend a week with the 50-meter pole and the accommodation and the restaurant looking over the pole and all the sports facilities there. It was just sort of a perfect environment for a training camp.

The athletes themselves, we had the two groups come in and they were all quite different. So there was a lot of individual things that I picked up from those swimmers, but just in general, the thing that sort of blew me away from my first experience over in Thailand was that it was just the whole Tanyapura sports facility. It was amazing. Yeah, we’re so lucky to have that somewhat close by to Australia and New Zealand and just to be able to use that facility. I remember five years ago when a friend of mine was working there and he said, oh, you should bring a group of swimmers over and bring them over for a camp. And I originally thought, I don’t know who’s gonna wanna come over and do a camp with me, but I’ll put it out there, open it up and see if anyone wants to come. And it’s really become one of the things I really look forward to each year when we run these camps in October. And the facilities, as you said, are just so perfect with everything on site.

Everything’s taken care of. And you can really just, you can train, you can eat without having to worry about cooking or anything. You can sleep, rest, recover and really just enjoy yourself. So we’re so lucky to have that facility there. And this podcast, what I wanna sort of focus in on is talking about some examples from How Week with swimmers who were able to make some really significant changes to their stroke and to their speed over the course of those seven days and how someone listening to this podcast could potentially make those changes in their own stroke by applying some of the things that we went through at How Week. And you work primarily probably with the slower lanes there in Thailand. And you mentioned before the call that there was a couple of common themes that you saw there with those swimmers. So do you wanna touch on what some of those common themes were with their technique and how you went about making those changes

to their stroke?

Yeah, I was working with predominantly.

You know, often the first things that I’m trying to identify, you know, just to try and get an overview of the person and see if we can work on the biggest things that I see. And, you know, the terminology that comes to mind is to work on the big rocks as a theory of trying to get the big stuff right first and then sort of working your way down to the little rocks and working on the smaller, more details of technique. But I would always look for body positioning or the ability for the so-called performance platform of the body and how it looked in the water, whether the hips were high enough, whether there was back arch, head positioning issues often through breathing.

And other things that sort of stood out in the body positioning area were the sometimes excessive kicking for the speed that was being generated. So often if you’ll see a trauma that’s kicking too hard when they’re actually just swimming in an aerobic pace, it would indicate to me that they’re kicking in order to keep lift rather than to actually get any propulsion out of it. And if you can then work on a body position that can help generate its own lift, then that kicking can go away and thus save an awful lot of energy as we all know how puffed we get when we swim when we kick very hard. So those were often just big indicators

that would sort of red flag something that else that was going on in the swimmer. And I’d then sort of try and rectify that body position and however we could do that in a number of ways. The other things that stood out were quite often I would see the swimmer’s reaching forward too much on their catch. So they were catching in quite a shallow position and thus missing out on leverage that they could generate by just generally just trying to get a deeper catch and potentially a maybe a slightly more rhythmic stroke

rather than the sort of the just trying to reach and all about distance per stroke. Sometimes the concept of distance per stroke is not about reaching forward as far as you can with your hands but getting down and getting leverage will then allow you more power to pull yourself better through the water and that’s how you’re getting your distance per stroke. So sometimes just reaching forward with the hand can be quite a just a subconscious way that people think they’re getting distance but they’re actually not. There’s so much subtlety and nuance to that sort of stuff too isn’t there? Like when we work on the catch and the pull like there’s a lot of swimmers who go so go too deep with their arms and they’re very straight but then there’s also swimmers who are way too shallow to be able to get any of that leverage that you’re talking about. And so that’s why I think it’s it really comes down to the individual like there’s no advice that’s gonna fit for everyone

because there’s all these little nuances to the things that people are doing and it just depends on what it is for that individual. So true and you were absolutely right some of the swimmers were just driving down too deeply and not getting any sort of leverage on the catch. And also so very much an individual area of the stroke. You know, quite often when I first look at it from my try and ignore the woods for the trees if you know what I mean and just sort of almost blur my eyes and see if I can see something standing out with that swimmer and often it’s a little bit different per swimmer and quite often swimmers over time they don’t realize it but it’s the hard stroke that’s often the best stroke. So it’s the stroke that’s making them tired and they don’t realize that they’re actually subconsciously letting that hard stroke go because they’re doing quite a few laps and it’s tiring to do it that way. They will, you know, as I said subconsciously

they’re not aware of it. They’ll actually let go of the water a little bit and find an easier way to rotate through the water. So, you know, sometimes it’s about bringing the swimmer back to that awareness of actually grabbing the water and working with the stroke but maybe it’s not such a pleasant stroke to work with but until you can develop it and get stronger with it. Yeah, I really like in reference to that hard stroke it’s not the stroke that’s where you’re pulling as hard as you possibly can but it’s the stroke that might be quite tiring as you’re pulling through because you’re holding a lot more water than what you were before and one of the things that really resonated I think with the people at Hell Week you’re talking about different gears so imagine you’ve got, I might actually let you explain it but the reference or the analogy of using different gears and where you should probably spend most of your time

training in the bigger gear and then when it comes to racing it makes the lower gears a lot easier to kind of settle into. So can you explain the reference to the gears because that helped a lot of swimmers on camp? Yeah, sure, it was a concept that I didn’t come up with I first heard of it from a famous American coach called David Salo and he talked with his swimmers who are some several of his swimmers I’ve worked with in the New Zealand Swim Team

and they’ve really relayed plus he’s talked to me about the gear system it’s just a really simplified way of looking at the power of a stroke and he talks about five gears he will talk about that as a training intensity issue as well

he’ll tell swimmers I want this set to be done in fifth gear or I want this set to be done in third gear and so it sort of relates not only to stroke but in amounts of work or energy that you’re using up in the pool

but fifth gear obviously in terms of a bike or a car or something like that is the big strong cog that maybe takes a bit more power to get around but once you get that gear moving that’s when you’re really gonna find your top speed and as you can go down the gears sometimes depending on distance you wanna try and find the right gear for the distance that you work on and it may be that if you’re doing a long ocean swim you might wanna be settling into sort of a third gear third, third and a half, fourth gear and just finding that efficiency and something that’s quite fast but it’s strong you’ve got good leveraging and above all you’re getting decent speed without getting too tired so that’s sort of a rhythmic energy to that third, fourth gear

and then you can when you really wanna sort of overtake or work to a finish of a race or perhaps it’s a shorter race then you want a bit of power into that gear rating so you might wanna be able to chop up but as a coach I’ll notice a lot of times swimmers find it difficult to change gears so I think it’s an important thing to be practicing and training is that concept of working through the gears

some swimmers find it very, very difficult to do that and they find that they get stuck in sort of those middle gears and they can’t find a top gear or even a lower gear so it is an interesting concept to work with. Yeah and I like the way that cruise we’ve got so much time there on camp you know it’s not like we’re just doing an hour and a half session it’s seven days of two sessions a day and I think we’re able to get people for those that were struggling with it we’re able to get them to have a pretty good sense of what they needed to do to be able to shift gears like we did quite a bit of stroke count work like just some fifties where I think it might have been like 10 fifties where we had them do minimum stroke count but in that minimum stroke count it’s not like you’re holding the glide for two or three seconds it’s just keep your normal rhythm going but the way that you can reduce your stroke count is to either reduce the drag

or increase the propulsion and then the effectiveness of your kick and your rotation and your catch and pull and just getting them to practice that and that’s really kind of like that fifth gear where you’re just looking to really maximise the distance per stroke and then we did quite a bit of variable pace work like we did quite a few sets of 200s and 100s where we had them go sort of one easy, one medium, one fast and just to be able and giving them their times as they went through it and I found throughout the week majority of the swimmers were getting a lot better at being able to shift those gears and change the speed as they went whereas there was probably half the swimmers I’d say at the start of the camp who when they went to increase the speed they didn’t actually go any faster than the second one and sometimes even the first one like it all just sort of blended into one and that’s that ability to change the gears

but I found they really were able to improve that with those different sets that we were doing and I mean we saw some pretty dramatic changes with particularly some of the swimmers in those slower lanes where we had swimmers who started out around the sort of 230, 240 mark per 100 and then by the end of the camp they were down to around that sort of two minute mark when they were really sort of pushing it and what changes did you see happen for like those swimmers who were able to make such big improvements in such a short space of time? I think there’s a range of things that was sometimes we would just see those changes from fitness that the swimmers were getting through the week you’d see them sort of often go on second and third day they’d go through a bit of a tired patch but before the end of the week that most of them were really breaking through and you could see the fitness especially doing all that long course

50 meter swimming outdoors but you know technical changes I’d like to think that that embraced the things we’d talked about and you know that that was the magic wand and you know surely it is at the end of the day it’s just that oftentimes it’s quite you know you can sometimes you can see as you know you can see someone just instantly it’s a light bulb moment and what you’ve discussed with them they’ve got straight away and they’re liking it straight away but sometimes it’s a three, four, five day process and you’ll often see them getting on to what you’re talking about three days later and I had several swimmers coming up and saying things like that I’ve only just felt what you were talking about on Monday sort of thing

so yeah I think it is a whole range of those sorts of things and just clicking and I think one of the neat things we also did on campus because we had so many coaches that everyone got analysed by everyone and so I would have swimmers coming to me and saying something that you’d said to them really resonated and then it helped them and clarified what I’d said or something Mitch had said and I think because we were often on the same sort of wavelength

it just really helped the swimmers to get that reinforcement from different angles and spoken in different ways Yeah that’s one of the real benefits I think to having being able to have so many coaches on camp and that’s what like we’ve got seven camps coming up next year which you’ve which I think you’re doing six of so you’ll be at the NUSA camp in March the two Hawaii camps in July and then the Hawaii camps in October and we’ve got, I’m just saying we’ve got minimum three coaches for each of those but I think even four or five for some of the other camps and the way that we sort of structure the weeks are we’ve in the afternoons typically in the afternoons we do sort of two on one coaching where we do filming and you get to work really closely with each coach each day and it’s that, you’re exactly right it’s like a lot of people come out to me and said, oh this thing that Gary said this made the difference so like an example that I had

one of the swimmers on camp has she was having trouble basically with the exit of her stroke she was too wide and I think it was on the second day that we were doing the two on one coaching Mitch had said to her, just imagine that you’re coming into your opposite hip on your other side when you go to exit and that’s kind of the exaggeration she had to feel to fix her exit and get it in closer to her hip and it was that it was just that one idea that allowed her to make that change and just fix something that she’d been working on for a very long time and it’s just the different messages same point but different message and sometimes it’ll different things will connect with different people and that’s what I really love and I sort of sort of I really want to make sure that people get that that pretty much one on one coaching at the camp and that’s why I’m no longer running these camps by myself I mean five years ago when I ran the first Hell Week

it was me and about 20 swimmers and that was way too much and I don’t know if we did video analysis then but now it’s minimum three coaches if not more and Jesus makes such a difference with the improvement that people make and certainly makes my job a lot easier as well because it’s nice to be able to let you and Mitch and Phil just kind of do your thing because you’ve been in this sport for so long and you know what you’re doing and it’s just great to be able to just trust that you guys will you’ve got the knowledge you’ve got the coaching there and you can just kind of do your thing which is really really good and one of the things that I picked up from you I think it was on the first podcast that we recorded was the pit of discomfort talking about the awkward and uncomfortable feeling that you’re going to have when you’re changing your stroke and I relay that as much as I possibly can because it’s kind of I think you put wording

kind of put the wording to the thing that I knew was there but I didn’t have a great way of explaining it and now I really preface camps and clinics with that pit of discomfort that you’re going to go through and for those people who haven’t heard that before could you explain what that is that people will experience when they’re improving their stroke? My concept was something I was taught to me on a coaching course and it was very general it’s not just for swimming it’s for all sports but it was a neurologist who talked about it and just in terms of motor skill learning and neuroly and adapting to new techniques and new habit forming and basically his concept was that you pretty much have to go into a discomfort platter he labelled it the pit of discomfort you go into that for a while because it’s just so alien from what you’re used to doing so if you’re making a change unless you go into that pit of discomfort you might not actually be making any sort of change at all

because it’s the change that’s the uncomfortableness because you’re basically setting whole new neural pathways you’re accessing new muscles and different timing sequences than you’ve ever used before but if you think about it logically that’s how you make a new technique happen and that’s how through repetition through that pit of discomfort then you come out with a habit so and that’s ideally what we all want is good habits in the pool or any sort of physical activity that we’re doing we want those things to be able to happen naturally through repetition and practice so yeah it’s something that I really embrace myself whenever I’m doing any sort of sport or training I always think that that uncomfortable feeling is worth persevering through oftentimes if you know that the concept of what you’re doing makes sense and if you know that the way that you’re doing it should make certain muscle groups feel tired or uncomfortable

then you sort of embrace those specific uncomfortableness feelings and you work with them and you sort of bring them aboard as part of your routine and generally the pit is just a pit you’ll generally come out the other end and feel way better because of it at some point but there’s often just that awkward period when you make a change that’s pretty much what the pit’s all about and I want to talk about the connectedness in the stroke one of the swimmers that we had was having trouble basically having trouble with keeping his arm out in front while he was getting the breath so his arm that was in front kept dropping down elbow was dropped and he just couldn’t keep it out there and really get the timing of the stroke to keep it front quadrant and he was just really struggling and he’s quite tight through the shoulders as well so mobility’s sort of there too but one of the things that you had this swimmer do to be able to keep that lead arm out in front

for balance and support and to get a better catch was you actually had him slow down the hand at the back of the stroke through the exit just to be able to keep pressure on the water and provide propulsion for him to be able to keep that lead arm there because one of the things you noticed was he was coming out a bit short which was causing that hand to drop and what are some of those other things in the stroke or first of all if you could talk sort of about that and how you noticed it but what are some of those other things that are connected in the stroke as well that you tend to look at if there’s certain faults or flaws in the stroke? So I’m a believer that there’s all sorts of magic rhythmic sort of patterns in swimming it’s quite mathematical in some weird way in an artistic way

everything’s related through and it’s oftentimes in long axis strokes freestyle and backstroke it’s related to the body roll and so your roll from side to side is the engine that powers your stroke but you can’t get a good roll unless your kicking timing is correct and the feet give you a little bit of pressure in order to push the hips and the shoulders and get that roll going so you need purchase on your feet in order to get the body rolling so the timing of the kick is incredibly linked whether it’s a two beat kick or a six beat kick to that just roll from side to side with the hips and shoulders

and then the stroke is in sync with that as well so there are little patterns things like that if you’re looking at the front end of a stroke also have a look at the back of the other arm stroke you know what’s the finish of a stroke doing while the other stroke’s catching because if you’re not pushing back enough with one hand then you’re not getting that good push and glide that’s reaching you into the next stroke with the other hand so there’s a real connection between the finish of one stroke and the catch of another it was something that I really worked on a lot with backstroke backstroke’s slightly different from freestyle it’s not a catch-up aspect to it at all it’s a very windmilly stroke but you really need a seamless transition of push from one hand into the catch of the other and that concept itself is very very similar in freestyle even though it’s slightly different timing of where you’re doing that

but those sort of things the timing of the breathing are working with the role of the shoulders and the rhythm of the catch all of those sort of things trying to get those timing patterns right and oftentimes it’s even more noticeable in strokes like butterfly and breaststroke if you get the timing out and those strokes

the stroke can be very very hard to do one of the things I’ve started to give a lot of our the online members who send their videos in for analysis is I’m turning to look a lot more at the feet and if the timing’s out and that connectedness with the kick and the rotation in the front end of the stroke if it’s not quite there I’ve just been getting them to do some a lot of them I’ll give them 650s with a kickboard and a snorkel and building one to three so easy, medium, fast 50 do that twice through and like it doesn’t need to be a lot if they’re not doing anything at the moment but just that pure, pure kicking as part of their warm up and doing that across four, five, six weeks I’ve seen a big difference just in the in the entire stroke once they have that more effective kick with that little bit of downwards and upwards pressure with the down and up beat and yeah and it’s exactly right it’s for the swimmers who

where there’s just no connectedness through the kick it’s very hard to get that front end working without it and I think when I first probably started coaching triathletes I had

probably a bit less of a focus on it because I was like well you don’t really need to you don’t need to be kicking hard for those longer distances but the thing I was missing there was well yeah you need an effective kick though which means that it’ll help you with the hip rotation and everything else so it is certainly important even though it’s not necessarily going to provide a lot of propulsion it will help help with everything else so it’s something that I’ve started to look a lot more at and

for swimmers who struggle with kicking there are a lot of swimmers who can’t go forwards when they’re kicking like their ankle inflexibility is really bad I just get them to start out with fins on and get started that way and then that will help to loosen up the ankles you’re probably best having some good fins like the DMC fins that we recommend because if you’re using maybe some of the Speedo fins which can be very stiff and very heavy then they can actually it’s not great for your ankle flexibility so some good fins just kick with those first and a kick board and a snorkel so you’ve got your head down and then you’ll eventually get to the point where you can just take them off and move forwards and it might be a very slow progression for people who are it might be in your 50s, 60s and so on and you’re very tight through the ankles but you can get there and it can make a world of difference once you do have you sort of seen that with

a lot of swimmers who are in their 50s and 60s who have maybe come from a running background?

And I think there is a general we’ll try not to generalise too much but there does seem to be a lack of wanting to kick as the adult especially the femur, the triathletes so it’s interesting you say that I get a lot of my squads that my adult fitness and triathlete ocean squats squads they feel that you see them turn their noses up to doing kick sets

and I can see on the surface that it’s maybe not relevant especially when you get a wetsuit on and flomber and stuff they keep going back to the back but it just makes you a better swimmer and it can cause stability if you kick climbing and thrower it helps the rotation the power you get through the strike and through the hips amazing world class world champion swimmers that have been 2B pickers you don’t have to have a 6B powerful sprint kick but it’s just the timing and the drive of those 2B kicks is usually very good with a good swimmer and so it is something that I think is very important I think being able to kick with slippers like you say good slippers being able to sub-picking I think is very important because just kicking on your front with a board generally puts you in a bad body position at arch as you back it lets you bend your knees a bit too much it focuses on a down kick more than an up kick so I like to mix up the kicking

do some on your back especially on your side it’s very good because you’ve got even pressure both ways in the water so you can feel an up and a down kick and that drive coming from both directions of kick is really really important for that drive, that purchase that you want to be working with the hips and the height of the hips and the role of the hips so that sort of thing I think is very important just to mix it up and just look at it as an overall part of swimming it’s just a drill basically to try and help the rest of the stroke improve yeah and just to sort of finish up as we’re going through some of the sets at Halwick we’d typically have like one more of a sort of training session in the day and then one more skills and technique focus session in the sessions where we’re sort of working a bit harder it was more of a training session as you’re working with some of those guys and girls in the slower lane particularly like if you think of the DC special

which is the 40-50 set that we always finish up Halwick with where you’re basically the set is 1650s where you go every fourth one fast 1250s where every third one is fast eight where every second is fast and the last four are all fast what was your, what message did you have for the swimmers as they were going through that in order for them to be able to maintain their pace in those fast ones throughout the whole set and keep their stroke together because I mean I think ever like in both weeks and across all of the lanes like people really finished off well with that DC special set what were some of the messages that you were giving to those swimmers to be able to sustain their pace you know a lot of times I was actually trying to hold them back because I knew that I knew the sort of the length of that set what it was going to be for the level of the swimmers and so a lot of times it was a bit about hey let’s relax more now

you know just stretch it out work on your stroke on these easy ones and so on just so that we could get the different paces of gears but I think a lot of the swimmers you know it’s basically giving them times on every one that they were coming in and I don’t think a lot of those swimmers had had that degree of sort of sort of coming in and someone telling them exactly how the work that they’ve done equated to an improvement in time and so that sometimes was just a really nice thing to have is that knowledge of you know what your time pacing is

so yeah that was a great field I really enjoyed working with the swimmers on that one it’s quite, I know just from my own experience it’s quite motivating once you’ve if you’ve got someone there giving you your times and you don’t need to look at your watch you don’t need to look at the stop clock like you’re getting your times there and all you need to focus in on is your output and your effort and especially for I mean probably I’d say half the swimmers at each of the camps there probably don’t get that on a regular basis just in the squads so they’re not exactly sure what the effort required is for the times and yeah in terms of holding back at the start of a let’s say a 2K main set like that you’ve really got to hold back because it’s pretty easy to burn all of your matches at the start in the first sort of 10 to 15, 50s if you are going completely all out in those fast ones so a lot of it is about knowing how to pace it

and how to just take it easy at the start because I mean it doesn’t usually take a lot of extra effort to increase the speed it means you just hold that good technique add in a little bit more effort but you can see a pretty good result a couple seconds per 50 faster by doing that but you can easily go from say like your easy ones might be a 5 out of 10 and your fast ones might be an 8 out of 10 but it’s pretty easy to go to like a 10 out of 10 and maybe only go half a second fast for that 50 but you’ve burnt your matches early on whereas all you want to do is just sit at that 8 out of 10 instead and I think that’s what can be a real skill to learn to do but the more types of the more often you do those types of sets the better you get at it and that really transfers into your ability to hold a good pace in the races that you’re doing yeah that times that 8 out of 10 in effort would be the 10 out of 10 in time

without them realising it you’d get the fastest time on the ones that were just being worked on efficiently and like you say at about an 8th level and you wouldn’t often see someone as they tried harder than perhaps create more drag by thrashing or so on

yeah and that’s one of the things that can be good about well can be good about camps is like the environment is everyone’s generally pretty relaxed maybe at the start like everyone’s sort of figuring it out first day so they’re not as relaxed but as they go through it like people in a good headspace we do those breathing exercises they’re in paradise, the weather’s good sunny, everyone’s just in that headspace where they’re not trying to force things and that’s what I notice like I guess at a camp compared to maybe like a squad is that people are just in that sort of environment people can change a lot easier and a lot quicker when they come from that place of calmness, of relaxation and not trying to over do things

yeah and then as the week went on it was just such a beautiful environment with all the trees around and all the water but you know like we were talking about earlier I think and from my point of view having that sharing ability with all four of us coaches

it’s quite novel because you know coming from a high performance background the coaches might talk to each other about concepts but the you know the high performance swimmers or the coaches were often very possessive about their swimmers and they didn’t want other coaches working with them so you know it was all about the relationship between that coach and that swimmer and you see that a lot in high performance swimming so it is so refreshing to have those different opinions being all dished out you know four different coaches giving concepts but you know again they’re not generally not different concepts they’re all pretty much on the same wavelength

that we were working with because we’re talking so much out of the pool about our coaching concepts with each other that we’re all sort of learning from each other at the same time so it is just a really novel thing I think especially from my background as a coach yeah yeah and it’s good to be a part of that like for me I really thoroughly enjoyed the camps in Thailand because it’s a good group of coaches everyone’s all the swimmers are just there because they want to improve but they’re also there to have a holiday to be able to relax and just enjoy being over there and next year so I mean so we’re coaching at Nusa, Hawaii and Thailand so if you’re listening and you want to work with myself and Gary all of those camps are on our website so you can check out the details there but basically got Nusa in March and May, Hawaii in July and then the Thailand camps in October so yeah really looking forward to those and having your back on

having you having your back there on deck it’s going to be a lot of fun and as you said it’s probably a slightly different environment to what you’re used to like it’s you know we train hard and we put a lot into it but I just I really love the relaxed environment that we that we can have at each of these places and the fact that we get to go to such beautiful destinations it’s I mean I just I really love and that’s why about it I’ve got seven camps going next year where it was through what was it three this year I just thought yeah this is what I really enjoy so I want to just do do more of them which which are the camps you’re looking forward to the most oh gosh you know honestly I really like you I enjoy them all I haven’t done Nusa yet so I’m not sure what that’s like I am looking forward to that because I’ve never been to Nusa which is a strange thing

and I think you know it’s almost transplanting isn’t it Hawaii was quite similar to me to Thailand in content of what we were delivering maybe you know there was a bit more work in Helwick than in Hawaii but in general it was really the focus on technique and working with the swimmers and and trying to find the the the challenges involved with helping people to improve their strokes so you know so I look forward to that no matter where that is and so yeah I don’t know if I have a favorite yet yeah I’m looking forward to all that thanks for joining me on the podcast and we will catch up in in March and yeah really looking forward to that that first camp in Nusa

yeah thanks very much for having me on the podcast again I’ll look forward to it in the future thanks for listening to the effortless swimming podcast if you’d like us to help you become a faster more efficient swimmer go to www.effortlesswimming.com